Piracy, Theft, and the Internet

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:44 am

As recommended in another thread.....

Piracy, theft, downloading stuff you shouldn't...all bad. But why?

First, why do people download/copy things? Becuase its...

a) Cheap
b) Easy to do
c) Has few consequences

Originally, Napstar found a pseudo-business model that filled all three models. Unfortunately, they followed the famous business model of...

Make Something Cool + ?????? = PROFIT!

OK, so Napster gets shut down, and the RIAA undertakes a program to change the third model. People move off of Napster and onto other items that fill the first and third model (Gnutella, etc).

So, we can take these models and apply them to software like we were doing in the other thread... Buying a student license as opposed to a regular license for Office. It obviously fits all models...so that's why people do it.

How do we solve this issues? What are the issues that drive these models? It's simpler than you think....

It all comes down to information control (patents, copyrights, trademarks, etc...) and how people work (and circumvent) these controls. If you can control a product, and use those legal rights to essentially ensure you are the only person who can distribute it (and set a bad price), then the likelihood of piracy and theft increases.

So, how to fix this? Patent Control? SWAT teams of "Copyright Police"?

Heck, I don't know...

Post by **cwallace** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:20 am

For the most part you DON'T control it...you accept it and factor it into your business.

You calculate 'risk' and proceed from there. I work for a credit union and have the lovely experience of having an office near collections. You learn REAL quick how many people are out there driving vehicles they are not paying for because the CU was nice enough to give them a loan to purchase it. They calculated the risk of handing on the money and what they would have to pay to have someone sit there and make calls and track down payments. As well as cover the losses when the cars are destroyed or abandoned and money is still owed.

It is a factor in playing the game and will never be fully controlled. The rest of the people who make good on their obligations are the ones that have to ultimately pay for it...like with software and music...we pay HIGHer prices because the risk factor drives it up.

Easy enough...

Chris

deek · Post by **deek** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:30 am

Intellectual property is a very sensitive thing, to most people, but especially the creators. For me, and talking about software, I always try to find an open source solution, something I can legally download and use without paying for it. Granted, not all open source is free (as in money), but everything I have found, has been.

I think you outlined exactly why I have downloaded things in the past, in the exact order:

Free - All it takes is knowing where to find it, whether that be online, through a friend or a student:)

Easy to do - Again, once you know where to find it, its no more difficult than browsing the web or visiting a newsgroup.

No consequences - I have never been prosecuted for software theft. Although, I have always believed that personal use of illegal software was okay as long as I wasn't using it to make money (which may or may not actually be true). But I realized that if I did start a business, I'd have to wipe a lot of software...

I built a new gaming PC a few months back, and I thought about NOT buying an OS and just "getting" one and save $80, but I didn't. I bought it.

The computers I have at home right now are all legit. Preinstalled version of Windows 2000 on one laptop. Preinstalled version of Mac OS9 on another laptop. Windows XP Home on my home-built machine. Windows XP Pro on a purchased Dell. Mac OSX on another desktop and Linux on my home server...and as for software...well, I do have an illegal copy of Adobe CS2...but that is it...

Now, 5-10 years ago, whole different story as there was probably only ONE LEGIT piece of software I had:)

I'd say that the music industry is trying to control this, as you have suggested, by DRM, but I don't think most people feel that is working, so I don't think the solution is as simple as you think. All in all, I think many people have a hard time paying for intellectual property...

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:31 am

Well as I was "off the record" taught in both colleges that I attended.

Major software companies do not mind when students use or distribute pirated copies of software to other students or unprofessionals.

Ultimately it is just more exposure for their product, companies like Adobe/Macromedia for instance do not thrive off of personal software sales. They make their money off of selling their software along with 10-1000+ licenses to small and large corporations.

As far as they see it, the more their product is floating freely in the educational realm, the more they secure their reign in the professional world since so many people are being trained or are at least familier with their product.

deek · Post by **deek** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:01 am

kimaliz wrote:Well as I was "off the record" taught in both colleges that I attended.

Major software companies do not mind when students use or distribute pirated copies of software to other students or unprofessionals.

Ultimately it is just more exposure for their product, companies like Adobe/Macromedia for instance do not thrive off of personal software sales. They make their money off of selling their software along with 10-1000+ licenses to small and large corporations.

As far as they see it, the more their product is floating freely in the educational realm, the more they secure their reign in the professional world since so many people are being trained or are at least familier with their product.

I certainly agree. I don't think major software companies care about the personal use, as those numbers are not the drivers of their business.

But, on the other hand, not all software companies are "major", so while MS might not care if a handful of users are stealing their software, a smaller software company does.

Although, how many non-professional users does a major software company care about though? I mean, at least at a university, they are still getting $5-$50 from those students for the software...a lot of them at least. Which is only fair as most students HAVE to have the software to do their schoolwork.

How many people is say, the US, use pirated software? Is it in the thousands? Millions? I mean, we know how MS felt about personal use software in China...they didn't like millions of users getting that free or cheaply copied...

So, I think there is a definite threshold here...

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:28 am

Oh I definatly agree about the threshold.

I don't agree with stealing at all. Although, I would have never even picked the design field as a career if I didnt land some pirated copies of Photoshop ( and others ) as a kid.

It is an overall moratlity issue with our country. As a whole, we will take something if dangled infront of us long enough when no one is looking.

I don't feel band trying out a pirated version of software. If I end up liking it, I will in fact buy it. Ever since 2003 I have owned my own software and I love it.

Same with music. If I hear some tracks off the internet or a buddy burns me a copy of a new album, I will buy it if I enjoy it.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:13 pm

I haven't bought a CD since 1998 and I never will buy a CD again. I have every song I want and more.

I am a thieving mothertrucker, but since I have no conscience it really doesn't bother me.

Post by **cwallace** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:18 pm

sevesd93 wrote:I haven't bought a CD since 1998 and I never will buy a CD again. I have every song I want and more.

I am a thieving mothertrucker, but since I have no conscience it really doesn't bother me.

YOUR GOING TO HELL!!! <points>

Chris

deek · Post by **deek** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:46 pm

kimaliz wrote:Oh I definatly agree about the threshold.

I don't agree with stealing at all. Although, I would have never even picked the design field as a career if I didnt land some pirated copies of Photoshop ( and others ) as a kid.

It is an overall moratlity issue with our country. As a whole, we will take something if dangled infront of us long enough when no one is looking.

I don't feel band trying out a pirated version of software. If I end up liking it, I will in fact buy it. Ever since 2003 I have owned my own software and I love it.

Same with music. If I hear some tracks off the internet or a buddy burns me a copy of a new album, I will buy it if I enjoy it.

Yeah, I wish I was a little more like that...just meaning that I don't usually feel the need to buy something after I have tried it out (music or software) unless I feel like I am making something off of it.

I mean, with music...I don't really listen to much, so the stuff I get from friends or the internet, doesn't really get used much, even if I like it. I guess I end up buying the music if I really, really like it, otherwise, its just there. As of right now, my entire digital music library is a total of 15 songs...each of which I ripped from a CD I owned.

Software though, the stuff I use that is pirated (again, just Photoshop), I use occaisionally and don't plan on spending any money on a registered version. Maybe if it was under $30, but anything above that, probably not...

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:59 pm

Yeah I mean I won the Macro/Adobe Creative Suite cost me close to 2k but for someone who uses it for a living the support is great. Plus upgrades are cheap. I also feel better about my product that I produce with it because though they dont care about me now, if I ever do something that becomes widely known, I could get hit fast for piracy.

so I recommend anyone actually making money off of it should buy the software. Students should wait.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:52 pm

cwallace wrote:
sevesd93 wrote:I haven't bought a CD since 1998 and I never will buy a CD again. I have every song I want and more.

I am a thieving mothertrucker, but since I have no conscience it really doesn't bother me.
YOUR GOING TO HELL!!! <points>

Chris

The funny thing is I will be in hell with all the record company executives that I stole from.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:00 pm

sevesd93 wrote:
cwallace wrote:
sevesd93 wrote:I haven't bought a CD since 1998 and I never will buy a CD again. I have every song I want and more.

I am a thieving mothertrucker, but since I have no conscience it really doesn't bother me.
YOUR GOING TO HELL!!! <points>

Chris
The funny thing is I will be in hell with all the record company executives that I stole from.

Now that's Irony.