gay marriage

The Hand of Poo · Post by **The Hand of Poo** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:46 am

Oliver's Army wrote:You have to remember that openly queer people are a reltively new issue for the church.

The mindset and approach to this issue is slow to take hold in most heavily organized churches and the old school elders are a tough bunch.

As these older members start to pass, and younger progressive thinking people come in these, practices *may* relax.

I agree with most.

Leave the church wedding for the ones who practice and provide a legal, binding and RECOGNIZED union for those those who dont.

Wholly agreed.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:49 am

Are you against las vegas overnighters?

Between a male/female relationship? No!

I'm waiting for the Homophobe label to hit me...
but once again, I've nothing against any legal
unions, just uncomfortable with it being considered
marriage.

traumaqueen · Post by **traumaqueen** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:58 am

while reading all your thoughts on this subject is no doubt interesting, it's quite distracting for me to read the term "queer" over and over, instead of homosexual or "ghey". which is what i'm sure most of you would actually say in real life.
thanks for the giggle, censor overrider thingy!

The Hand of Poo · Post by **The Hand of Poo** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:59 am

WBOB wrote:
Are you against las vegas overnighters?
Between a male/female relationship? No!

I'm waiting for the Homophobe label to hit me...
but once again, I've nothing against any legal
unions, just uncomfortable with it being considered
marriage.

No no, it's not homophobia. I understand the religous tradition thing, trust me. It's the logical analysis that homosexual marriage is damaging and one-night-and-anulled-in-the-morning hitchings aren't that I have a problem with, especially in the arena of looking to positively influence future generations.

Then again, this sorta exposes that gap between religion and logic.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:17 am

traumaqueen wrote:while reading all your thoughts on this subject is no doubt interesting, it's quite distracting for me to read the term "queer" over and over, instead of homosexual or "ghey". which is what i'm sure most of you would actually say in real life.
thanks for the giggle, censor overrider thingy!

I know I know,... its this overly PC world these days

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:18 am

Here's a shocker, I'm straight and I won't be married in a church. Whoa.

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:54 pm

i wont get married

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:08 pm

Legal Union = Marriage

Marriage = Legal Union

One must obtain a Marriage Certificate to be considered Married or Legally Unioned.

"Don't call it marriage, that word came from the Bible." = Bullsh*t

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:08 pm

Explain to me how, in the face of Las Vegas quickie chapels, 30 second celebrity marriages and young models sucking rich old geezers dry, that marriage is still sacred.

The church has no problems with using marriage as a financial lever, then? Because I don't believe I've seen them protest that too much.

Not to rain on your parade, but most of the churches who are opposed to ghey marriage are very much opposed to the other things you mention as well. Or perhaps better said, they're very much concerned about the sanctity of what used to be considered a "Holy Union". Divorce rate is outrageous, quickie marriages, gold-digging marriages, pre-nup agreements, etc...

Also, I don't know of very many churches that would tell openly gay people they couldn't come to church. I'm sure there are some, but it's far from a large percentage. Most churches really don't spend very much time talking about it at all, to be honest. I realize it gets played out that they do, but honestly, who'd go to church and listen to that all the time?

My own church I'll use as an example. Believes that homosexual sex is sin, believes also that people have very real feelings and believe they are naturally homosexual. A number of openly homosexual people attend as a matter of fact and feel comfortable. We have a reputation as being "Gay Friendly", according to one person - interesting, given that we are also open about believing it is sinful behavior. The pastor (and most members) believes that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of their sin and doesn't harp on it at all. Actually, they don't really harp on sin at all period. It's all about learning who Jesus was, what he did, why he did it, and how we can become more like him. People flocked TO Jesus. They tend to run away from modern day Christians, Why???? We're doing something wrong... Maybe in that heterogenous society, the moral issues were pretty well understood, so there was no need to define it and redefine it... Maybe we've just got it all backwards...

At any rate, I'm opposed to homosexual marriage. It is a church, not a state institution. I also don't think the state should be the party responsible for handing out marriage licenses...

QWETTY · Post by **QWETTY** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:23 pm

bassjones wrote:
Explain to me how, in the face of Las Vegas quickie chapels, 30 second celebrity marriages and young models sucking rich old geezers dry, that marriage is still sacred.

The church has no problems with using marriage as a financial lever, then? Because I don't believe I've seen them protest that too much.
Not to rain on your parade, but most of the churches who are opposed to ghey marriage are very much opposed to the other things you mention as well. Or perhaps better said, they're very much concerned about the sanctity of what used to be considered a "Holy Union". Divorce rate is outrageous, quickie marriages, gold-digging marriages, pre-nup agreements, etc...

Also, I don't know of very many churches that would tell openly queer people they couldn't come to church. I'm sure there are some, but it's far from a large percentage. Most churches really don't spend very much time talking about it at all, to be honest. I realize it gets played out that they do, but honestly, who'd go to church and listen to that all the time?

My own church I'll use as an example. Believes that homosexual sex is sin, believes also that people have very real feelings and believe they are naturally homosexual. A number of openly homosexual people attend as a matter of fact and feel comfortable. We have a reputation as being "queer Friendly", according to one person - interesting, given that we are also open about believing it is sinful behavior. The pastor (and most members) believes that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of their sin and doesn't harp on it at all. Actually, they don't really harp on sin at all period. It's all about learning who Jesus was, what he did, why he did it, and how we can become more like him. People flocked TO Jesus. They tend to run away from modern day Christians, Why???? We're doing something wrong... Maybe in that heterogenous society, the moral issues were pretty well understood, so there was no need to define it and redefine it... Maybe we've just got it all backwards...

At any rate, I'm opposed to homosexual marriage. It is a church, not a state institution. I also don't think the state should be the party responsible for handing out marriage licenses...

state shouldnt hand out marriage licenses? therefore you must have a religion to get married?

also, you openly let homosexuals go to your church and yet you obviously think it is a sin? Thats ridiculous. So everyone thinks... "well hey they can come oevr for a little bit, but im not spending eternity in heaven iwth them." ?

If someone is NATURALLY (like you said) homosexual then why is that a sin? God made them that way just so he could send them to hell???

This is why i can believe in god and not the church. People are who they are... If being gay is such a sin you will go to hell, then i believe everyone is going to hell. Everyones done much worse than be themselves...

Oliver's Army · Post by **Oliver's Army** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:30 pm

Your logic is skewed.

EVERYONE sins.

You covet, you lie, you cheat, you steal, you're gay.

(At least in the eyes of the Church.)

If they refuse anyone who is a known sinner, there would be no one there.

The idea is to recognize the sins, and repent for them.

I personally have no issues with gays in the church. I think everyone is there for their reasons and I am there for mine.

Most Churches dont make a big deal out of it. They are just glad you're there.

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:08 pm

As a marriage can occur now with the total absence of the church, or anyone related to the church to oversee it, I feel that anyone that wants to be married (straight or gay) should be quite allowed to.

Would it please more people if gay people were allowed to marry, but not in a church? Would church people be happier if gays were married by a judge? I know there is still the whole "man and woman" thing but it seems like a good first step.

Sharkman, you gave me an idea with your comment about atheists going door to door...It would be great to go door to door holding Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion", and telling people I wanted to spread the good word of truth, science and atheism. I wonder if they would react worse to that than a couple of mormons? I bet JoJo would join me. RIP

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:27 pm

You might possibly make a 14th Amendment 'equal protection under the law' argument for ghey union, in a legal union. Then you can work out issues like property, inheritance, pensions, insurance, etc.

This is totally apart from any moral arguments. Let the churches sort out their definition of marriage on their own. The church usually defines marriage as happening completely seperate from any state or legal sanction.

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:59 pm

Oliver's Army wrote:Your logic is skewed.

EVERYONE sins.

You covet, you lie, you cheat, you steal, you're queer.

(At least in the eyes of the Church.)

If they refuse anyone who is a known sinner, there would be no one there.

The idea is to recognize the sins, and repent for them.

I personally have no issues with gays in the church. I think everyone is there for their reasons and I am there for mine.

Most Churches dont make a big deal out of it. They are just glad you're there.

You are correct but there is a big problem with that.

Since to the church, being ghey is considered a sin, yes you shouldn't be pushed away from the church and you should go to "repent".

But getting married is a complete slam in the face to a church and god under that reasoning. Its saying I know I am sinning but in stead of repenting you get married and basically "seal the deal" slapping god in the face. Saying yes I am a sinner and I am going to continue to to sin in fact i will get documentation stating that I am not going to fix this particular sin.

Can you see how that may piss of a church?

So yeah, be ghey and go to church, but if you know that you are going to change, then why would you want to be in church anyway, you obviously do not believe what they believe. Go start your own religion stop trying to change and destroy the sanctity of someone else's.

I keep some some christian beliefs and morals but I am not going to go to church with my current belief structure. I would too be slapping the church in the face. I would be saying "hey god, I really dont believe in you but I am gonna sit in your house and pretend I do just so I feel better about myself"

Its rude. I am all for peoples ability to be themselves, just be considerate to your neighbor who may have a different view or way of being himself.

_

bludspyre · Post by **bludspyre** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:29 pm

well, I would say I don't understand querr marriage? Is that when a wedding is strange or is that being used as a definition of another word. I am against homosexual marriage...............but if they do it...........that's their lives. One thing I am 100 percent against is: Treating homosexuals like they are special. The same goes with other races.

Do you see a billion crackers on the street with signs that say "Fight the power" or "White Power". No, you do not. I personally believe America has bent it's backbone to every other culture and lifestyle than what WAS considered normal, and yes I said NORMAL. Back in the 1960s it was risque to be homosexual, now if you have an issue with homosexuals then you are labeled: DISCRIMINATOR!!!!! I feel that is totally unjust in today's society. We shouldn't bend over backwards to give RIGHTS to homosexuals, blacks, mexicans, asians, or even whites. They all have rights......it's called being a friggin' American! Look at your damn Constitution right there.......................those are your rights.......so if anyone is against this, well, that's their opinion. It's FREEDOM of speech, a right in the Constitution.

DAMN UNEDUMACATED NUMBNUTS

from StG

ps.- I was just bullsh!++!ng most of this, but I do think America has gotten to messed up in the system since 1970.

peace