berlin...

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HillgrassBluebillyFTW
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berlin...

Post by HillgrassBluebillyFTW »

i know there's a thread about this somewhere... but I was wondering how the shows go there.

has it improved since the last thread?

what's the pay for a friday or saturday night?

cover/no cover?
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Post by Al Quandt »

I have heard that thins are coming together there much better now.
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Post by I, Wombat »

We had a great time playing there the night before Thanksgiving. I'm not sure what they were charging at the door but we made 10 bucks (+ free draft beer). No complaints from us. You won't get rich playing there but we had a good time. Support your local ROCK clubs!
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Post by St. Alfonzo »

Plus it sounded AWESOME!
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Post by Pullimic »

$10 for the whole band or 10 a person? how long did u play and how much did u drink? lol
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Post by tiny »

I, Wombat wrote:We had a great time playing there the night before Thanksgiving. I'm not sure what they were charging at the door but we made 10 bucks (+ free draft beer). No complaints from us. You won't get rich playing there but we had a good time. Support your local ROCK clubs!
Jesus, I hope you're kidding. Ten bucks and draft beer?

They couldn't have bought a Xmas CD to play for that.

No wonder no one takes live music seriously in this town. As long as someone will play for ten bucks and draft beer, that's what a performance will be worth. And anyone that chooses an attempt at professionalism will suffer.

Once again, tell me you're kidding...and that you didn't whore your band out for less than the tooth fairy leaves my kids.

Just my .02.
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Post by big ben parliament »

Honestly (and I don't mean to give offense by saying this. It's just my opinion), if you don't understand that it's not always about getting paid, then I can't explain it to you.
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Post by bassjones »

and that attitude is why those of us who are trying to be professionals and make at least part of our living at this can't get bars to pony up more than $3-400 for a full band of professional musicians playing great music well for 4 hours. Nobody expects the bartenders and/or waitresses to work for $10 and free beer, but bands do it all the time w/o complaint. YOU are working for THEM, bringing them paying/drinking customers. You made $10 and I bet the band brought in more than $1000 in alcohol sales for the bar.
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Post by Renegadesoulx »

It seems like the problem isnt how much you wanna get paid, but the fact that "professionals" and non-professional musicians are competing for the same venues. Any smart bar owner is gonna choose the guys that are gonna play for ten bucks and beer, over another band thats asking for hundreds of dollars. It doesn't seem reasonable for a local band who's just starting out (more who just want to have fun) to ask for 500 dollars to play. First people complained there was nowhere to play, now that there is bands are supposed to demand money? Then what do we say when the Berlin (or anywhere) says "were tired of dealing bands" and they switch to a dj or a juke box. The guys that want to be professionals and the guys that want to play for fun are both right. Who wouldn't want to make money playing music? But, if the Berlin is offering death metal bands the opportunity to play, it's unlikely there really interested in adult contemporary music, and outside of guys that play that kind of music I don't know a lot of professional musicians. Especially not a professional local death metal band. But thats neither here nor there, the point is
If local guys who just wanna have fun play at the Berlin it's unlikely that the Berlin is gonna start looking to pay hundreds of dollars for professional musicians. Therefore professional musicians should not try and ask the Berlin to pony up money. In this city, being a professional (successful) musician is pretty difficult, so you cant really blame guys accepting ten dollars and beer for the difficulties performing music in this city. Not mention nearly every professional musician I've ever met, gives private lessons, does clinics, is in education, or does something else to suppliment there income. Performance is just one aspect. I dont even think its possible to make a living on performance alone in this city.
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Post by Oliver's Army »

big ben parliament wrote:Honestly (and I don't mean to give offense by saying this. It's just my opinion), if you don't understand that it's not always about getting paid, then I can't explain it to you.
Yep.

You take the opportunities when you can.
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Post by LC Pwince »

bassjones wrote:and that attitude is why those of us who are trying to be professionals and make at least part of our living at this can't get bars to pony up more than $3-400 for a full band of professional musicians playing great music well for 4 hours. Nobody expects the bartenders and/or waitresses to work for $10 and free beer, but bands do it all the time w/o complaint. YOU are working for THEM, bringing them paying/drinking customers. You made $10 and I bet the band brought in more than $1000 in alcohol sales for the bar.
Tell you wnat. You guys do your thing and we'll do ours. We aren't competing with you or anyone else in town as far as booking goes. You're playing for 4 hours a night with a good dose of crowd pleasing covers. We're playing our original stuff with a cover or two for 90 minutes. We've gotten gigs that pay several hundred dollars, and we've played gigs where we make less than $10. WE are not working for THEM. We view it as a mutual beneficial relationship. We are using their stage to provide entertainment to people who want to see our band. I guess it's apples and oranges.
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Post by tiny »

I see both sides of it. I've played for nothing. But i's always for someone that ISN'T making money on my back, and usually for a cause I enjoy or can support.

I also believe, despite Ollie, LC, et al, that if the band brought ANY crowd, they were worth more than ten bucks and free beer. Even a DJ makes between 50 and 150 bucks a night, depending on the bar, and the clientele. So asking for cash doesn't make bar owners run to a DJ.

It's not about the money? Great. Then don't take any. Make it truly about the music. Oh, and lay off the free beer too. Buy your own. Help the bar make a buck. Support venues that support live music.

Otherwise, if you're good enough to play in public, you deserve to get paid. If you're not, maybe you should be paying THEM.

I still say that whether you're playing funk, blues, jazz, Motown, country, rock, metal or techno, you should be getting paid for putting on a performance in a venue that profits from your participation. If you drove people away from the bar, get the hell out. Otherwise, even a dollar cover would have netted you more than ten bucks and free beer. And set a precedent for getting paid in the future.

You know what your band is worth....and the kind of following you can bring. If ten bucks is the value of your performance, than 'use their stage' all you want. I guess for some bands, making 6.50 an hour for playing is something, after all.
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Post by Oliver's Army »

I didn't say to play for free/cheap.

I said to take "opportunities" when they occur.

*Occasionally* that involves playing for cheap/free.

If your getting ripped off by a club that clearly pays more to most other bands on a regular basis, then you have other issues.
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berlin

Post by shock533 »

as a long-time working musician and business owner, i can see both sides here. i personally have never turned down money that a venue has offered up for our band to perform. however, being in primairly "all original" bands all of my adult life, i have accepted that in order to play gigs you will not be able to "demand" several hunderd dollars. and a great majority of those shows were played free. we worked hard and played hard, accepting that the money would come as the status came as a result of hard work and dedication (not to sound like anyones dad). i dont think that bands like guns n roses, slayer, metallica... would ever even have existed if they werent willing to give it all, play for free, eat like sh*t, sleep in random houses or streets, and still keep pushing forward for the love of music, and to attain a common dream among all musiciams: to "make it big". berlin is a venue that caters to bands with this attitude. the bands that have the balls to write and play their own music, created from the heart. played from the soul. no, your not going to get rich playing there. but you will gain exposure, tighten your material, network with other bands, and (hold your breath for this one) ... have fun!!! if you want paid, sell out, start a top 40 cover band and play at the meat market bars. or better yet, go to school and get a degree in the profession of your choice, tighten up a resume, clip on a tie and succumb to the corporate f*** show out there... and theres nothing wrong with that whatsoever, if thats what your into. but dont start a black metal band in fort wayne, write 10 songs, and then expect to make $1000 a gig, 5 nights a week; and cry when you dont get that. its the undergorund scene, ladies. dont knock it, embrace it. its not too often that you have a bar owner, or venue in general that is willing to promote this kind of music. and I, Wombat kicked ass that night, by the way!!! thanks for coming out guys!!! hope to have you back again soon!
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Post by The_Dude »

1.) Free beer is better than paying for beer.

2.) Since when was it a bad thing to play because you enjoy playing?

3.) It's YOUR problem if you're trying to make "part of a living" at this. Get a different job...that's what I do when I'm not making enough money.
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