My version of how Iraq went down - for your viewing pleasure

[bassjones]

For those of you who believe we should pursue "diplomacy" instead of war with the Islamofascist scumbags who want to kill us - and are most excited to kill those of you who are most likely to be opposed to this war, ironically enough.

Diplomatic Negotiations with Hussein:

UN (and Bush Sr. ) - "We'll stop bombing you, but don't do that anymore, or else."
SH - "Or else, what?" does it again
UN (And Clinton) - "Don't do it again, or this time we'll pass a resolution."
SH - "hahahahahaha" - does it again
UN (and C) - passes resolution telling SH not to do it again
SH - "Okay", proceeds to do it again anyway
UN - "This time we mean it and to prove it we're passing another resolution."
SH - "Okay" - does it again anyway.
UN - "Okay this time we really mean it and to prove it we're putting sanctions on you, but we'll allow you to sell oil to buy food for your people."
SH - "Okay" proceeds to bribe corrupt UN officials and everybody makes millions from corruption of "oil for food" program except the peasants who of course starve. Meanwhile SH is still pursuing nukes and still throwing out weapons inspectors, along with torturing and killing his citizens.
UN - passes yet another resolution condemning SH and threatening to act...
SH - continues on previous path

repeat ad nauseum for 8 years...

along comes W....

"negotiations are over. Time to live up to the previous 13 resolutions." And somehow, he's the bad guy...

[Massage...Bored]

"We'll let you sell oil (to us) so you can feed your people."

[bassjones]

We weren't purchasing much (if any) oil from Iraq. Most of ours comes from the other OPEC nations, especially Saudi Arabia - which, I realize brings up a whole host of other problems, most of which we probably agree upon, believe it or not. Like, this question one might ask, for instance... "Why haven't we condemned the civil rights violations of the House of Saud when they've been as numerous - if slightly lower in scale - as Hussein's?" hmmm.... now, that probably has a lot to do with oil - I still don't buy that Iraq did.

[zenmandan]

From the Energy Information Administration:
July 2006 Import Highlights: Released on September 13, 2006
Preliminary monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in July 2006 has been released and it shows that three countries have each exported more than 1.25 million barrels per day to the United States. Including those countries, a total of five countries exported over 1.00 million barrels per day of crude oil to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 66 percent of United States crude oil imports in July while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 86 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top sources of US crude oil imports for July were Canada (1.624 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.561 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.264 million barrels per day), Venezuela (1.191 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (1.014 million barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Angola (0.666 million barrels per day), Iraq (0.592 million barrels per day), Algeria (0.413 million barrels per day), United Kingdom (0.229 million barrels per day), and Brazil (0.187 million barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 10.153 million barrels per day in July, which is a decrease of 0.528 million barrels per day from June 2006.

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum products in July, exporting 2.113 million barrels per day to the United States. The second largest exporter of total petroleum products was Mexico once again (1.709 million barrels per day) which was a decrease from last month of 0.146 million barrels per day.

What I find ironic about this is that we are told that gas prices are driven so high by everything going on in the Middle East and such, yet only two of the top ten US oil exporters are even in the Middle East.

[bassjones]

Total crude oil imports averaged 10.153 million barrels per day in July, which is a decrease of 0.528 million barrels per day from June 2006.

That's got to be the first time that's happened in a few years. High prices drive down demand... whodathunkit? However, demand can also drive prices down as it becomes more profitable to sell more oil at lower prices than selling less oil at higher prices.

What I find ironic about this is that we are told that gas prices are driven so high by everything going on in the Middle East and such, yet only two of the top ten US oil exporters are even in the Middle East.

Venezuela's a BIG problem, bigger probably than even Saudi Arabia. It'd be nice to be able to eliminate those two sources, or at least drastically reduce our reliance on them.

[WBOB]

For those of you who believe we should pursue "diplomacy" instead of war with the Islamofascist scumbags who want to kill us - and are most excited to kill those of you who are most likely to be opposed to this war, ironically enough.

Diplomatic Negotiations with Hussein:

UN (and Bush Sr. ) - "We'll stop bombing you, but don't do that anymore, or else."
SH - "Or else, what?" does it again
UN (And Clinton) - "Don't do it again, or this time we'll pass a resolution."
SH - "hahahahahaha" - does it again
UN (and C) - passes resolution telling SH not to do it again
SH - "Okay", proceeds to do it again anyway
UN - "This time we mean it and to prove it we're passing another resolution."
SH - "Okay" - does it again anyway.
UN - "Okay this time we really mean it and to prove it we're putting sanctions on you, but we'll allow you to sell oil to buy food for your people."
SH - "Okay" proceeds to bribe corrupt UN officials and everybody makes millions from corruption of "oil for food" program except the peasants who of course starve. Meanwhile SH is still pursuing nukes and still throwing out weapons inspectors, along with torturing and killing his citizens.
UN - passes yet another resolution condemning SH and threatening to act...
SH - continues on previous path

repeat ad nauseum for 8 years...

along comes W....

"negotiations are over. Time to live up to the previous 13 resolutions." And somehow, he's the bad guy...

....along with the Congress which voted and approved
and supported the action.(and continues to approve funding)
Even Kerry who voted for it and then was against that he voted for it.

[sharkmansix]

And somehow, he's the bad guy...

For me it's all about how Bush went about things. If he had said something to the effect of "He's a horrible dictator and we need to aid the Iraqi citizens...." then I might have had his support.

He didn't though. He mislead the nation and then enlarged a 'war on terror' to include Iraq.

Plus where's the conversation between the Saddam and his CIA backers from the 60's? Where's the conversation between Al-Qaeda and their CIA backers from the 70's?

[Massage...Bored]

Even Kerry who voted for it and then was against that he voted for it.

So you're the guy that still cares about Kerry's "flippy floppy".

[WBOB]

...amongst a good many who still have a good giggle about him!

[bassjones]

And somehow, he's the bad guy...

For me it's all about how Bush went about things. If he had said something to the effect of "He's a horrible dictator and we need to aid the Iraqi citizens...." then I might have had his support.

He didn't though. He mislead the nation and then enlarged a 'war on terror' to include Iraq.

Plus where's the conversation between the Saddam and his CIA backers from the 60's? Where's the conversation between Al-Qaeda and their CIA backers from the 70's?

I still don't see how he misled the nation into war. Just because Iraq wasn't behind 9-11, which he never said they were, doesn't mean they aren't part of the war on terror. And again, everybody thought Hussein had WMDs, including France, the UN, Clinton and his buddies while he was in office, et. al. Also, he always included the part about helping the citizens of Iraq. It was part of the same State of the Union address that he spoke of the WMDs in. Read the transcript.

I agree w/ you about our early mistakes with he and Bin Laden (really, the Taliban, but still). They were fighting against our greater enemies at the time, so we backed them. In hindsight, probably a really bad idea.

[WBOB]

including France, the UN, Clinton

all with the resolve of a jellyfish.

[bassjones]

Exactly, which is the point of my original post. At some point, it's time for talking, negotiating, resolutions and diplomacy to end, which should generally be when it becomes obvious to all involved that the offending party (Iraq, in this case) is not really interested in cooperating. The other time it should end is if there is an urgent need to act - which may well end up being the case with Iran real soon here. The thought of that nutjob with a nuke is scarier than Hussein with 3.

[WBOB]

which may well end up being the case with Iran real soon here. The thought of that nutjob with a nuke is scarier than Hussein with 3.

and we're going to let this dude in the U.S. next month?

[sharkmansix]

How come America is allowed to posess Nukes and not Iran? That's always mistified me. It's the total 'do as I say, not as I do' bit.

I have a feeling the answer will be something to the effect of 'well we can be trusted with 'em' but can we?

[Massage...Bored]

"Well, we're America, and Americans are the best. Nyah Nyah Na Boo Boo!!!"

I believe any response that you get, Jay, will boil down to this simple childhood taunt.