Music Related Research Paper Help

Haggard · Post by **Haggard** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:46 pm

I want to do a research paper on the methods and motivations for bands and how they write their songs to cater to a certain audience. My example is a band like Nickelback that seems to write every song to a formula based on what the average listener would enjoy, and what would sell the most albums. My question is, has anyone came across any articles dealing with this that could give me links or more insight so I can have more sources than just my jaded opinion? Thanks

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:26 pm

Bono's said he writes choruses for arenas filled with people singing along. That's why they're so high - 40,000 people singing along to those songs at those pitches sounds incredible. Think Pride (In the Name of Love) for starters. I don't have a link to it, but I remember reading it a long time ago.

Sankofa · Post by **Sankofa** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:20 pm

I know Rivers Cuomo has a book of songs he's determined are catchy and has tried to distill the essence of what makes a song popular. Kay (drummer for Rockefeller 4) contributed to a Fort Wayne Reader piece (written by Chris Colcord) about figuring out the formula for pop songs.

Brandon · Post by **Brandon** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:53 pm

Here are a couple websites I ran across that I thought were pretty funny, and also on the topic you are researching.

http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

http://www.hometracked.com/2007/05/29/a ... -the-same/

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:11 pm

I've studied pop songs for decades, and have some iron-clad theories about how they work, largely dealing with how certain harmonies produce emotional responses in Western listeners.

However, from your description in the initial post, I don't think that's what you're trying to "research." You seem to be saying that you suspect there is a formula for a hit that can be reproduced at will, and that Nickelback is cynically applying this secret formula to their work. Here's the truth:

Nickelback songs sound like that because that's how the guys in NIckelback write. The records sell because people like them and they get good promotional backup from their label.

That's all. You can't write a research paper on "How The Bands I Hate Cynically Use a Secret Formula To Write Hits" because there is no such thing.

THose links demonstrate that bands tend to re-write their own material. Jeez, ya think? How bout that. Can you tell one Jackson Browne song from another? DOn't a lot of Randy Newman and Joni Mitchell tunes sound the same? how many Leonard Cohen songs fit the same structure?

That happens for exactly the reason I said: every writer has harmonic and rhythmic biases that show up in their work over and over again. Nobody said Picasso was a wanker because you could tell his work a mile away... why do people expect endless originality from rock stars, and then stop buying their records when they change their style?

Pullimic · Post by **Pullimic** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:32 pm

he has a point, nickelback has a set sound, all of thier songs sound the same or very similar, another band that's very bad for re-writing the same song over and over is godsmack. stp on their core album uses almost the same bass riff in 3 or 4 different songs. I don't think it's really a formula your looking for, song writers are human and get stuck in ruts, certain progressions are appealing to the song writer so they use them over and over again, as a bass player I like to go from a G to an A, why, cause I like how it sounds, another is G to a C, see what I'm getting at here, I like starting in G when I write, I'm aware of it and try to change things up but when I sit down and just play I tend to start off in G. there's a quote I read once but I don't rememeber where, john lennon basically said when he wrote a song he'd play it 2 or 3 times through put it down and the next day if he couldn't remember it without writing it down it wasn't worth keeping. he wrote what was appealing to him personally, not what fans wanted to hear.

GoDownProductions · Post by **GoDownProductions** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:35 pm

Pullimic wrote:he wrote what was appealing to him personally, not what fans wanted to hear.

I sure wish more people would do this.

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:34 pm

GoDownProductions wrote:
Pullimic wrote:he wrote what was appealing to him personally, not what fans wanted to hear.
I sure wish more people would do this.

You don't get it... that's what everybody IS doing.

But if you don't like it, then it's easy to assume they're cynically putting aside their own preferences and simply writing what their fans want to hear.

Let me put this as simply as I can:

I write music to order, for ads and videos and stuff. Nobody in the record business works as hard as I do to specifically write music that will appeal to their customers. AND YET, I have never sent a single piece of music out of this shop that I didn't like. I write what I like, even though I am selling it to clients with absolute veto power.

It's impossible to not write songs that you personally like. This is why you can't ever really sell out: nobody's buying.

Every band you hate is writing songs they like. Diane Warren writes stuff she likes. Kenny G actually likes what he plays.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:24 pm

that makes Kenny G an even bigger putz than I already thought he was.

Bjart Sod · Post by **Bjart Sod** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:47 am

Oh c'mon, no one sets out to be a smooth jazz musician. And I bet at least one dude in Nickleback wishes he was playing something else.

Oliver's Army · Post by **Oliver's Army** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:54 am

bassjones wrote:that makes Kenny G an even bigger putz than I already thought he was.

The irony is that he is a kick ass tenor player.

It's that soul-sucking soprano that ruined his rep.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:00 am

label management has a lot to do with it too. A big piece of why artists don't change and grow is label pressure. Success with one song means they want 5 more of the same song.

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:43 am

Why attribute that to label pressure? Don't you think that when Kenny got that first platinum royalty check from Arista he thought, "Damn... I gotta make me another record like that one!"

Soul-sucking or not, let me know when you cook up a musical style so identifiable that people in commercial studios around the world say to the soprano player in the booth, "Just gimme a Kenny G kinda thing right here, wouldja?"

And let me hip ya'll to something else: one of the smartest, most accomplished, hippest jazz players in this entire part of the state has been asked to do that very thing by me, and I've watched him DO IT... flawlessly and without any bullsh*t, either. I praised him for his skill, he enjoyed cashing the check, we all had fun and made money.

Don't get me wrong... I don't own a single Kenny G record, not even as reference (I dont' need to hear it again to fake it). But for those of us who don't give a sh*t about fashion - we who play just because we like the sound of music - there's nothing wrong with getting paid for having fun. Guys in junior high school rock bands worry about who sold out and what's cool to listen to and where we personally stand on The Great Hipness Continuum.

MrSpall · Post by **MrSpall** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:11 pm

Silencio wrote:Guys in junior high school rock bands worry about who sold out and what's cool to listen to and where we personally stand on The Great Hipness Continuum.

And ironically, those who don't worry or think about said continuum, are usually the hippest of all.

Kudos Silencio.

GoDownProductions · Post by **GoDownProductions** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:10 pm

Silencio wrote:
GoDownProductions wrote:
Pullimic wrote:he wrote what was appealing to him personally, not what fans wanted to hear.
I sure wish more people would do this.
You don't get it... that's what everybody IS doing.

No... I get it. I know plenty of producers who make music they don't like. The reason they do it is because that certain type of music is what sells.

You've never heard of somebody leaving a band and admitting later that they never even liked the music they were making?

I'm not a big hed P.E. fan... but they said they didn't like their album Blackout, but their label forced them to make a more radio-friendly album.

Damn near every song on "Hip Hop" radio sounds the same. You're trying to tell me that those people are all making music they like, not just what the fans want to hear??? It's just a huge coincidence, and these people are creatively identical?

There's 4 different examples. You need more?