Songwriting: Breaking Away from the I IV V

[Pullimic]

McCartney was a kind of primitive genius at this: defining the chord by changing the bottom note.

That's why McCartney is on my list of 10 favorite players. From a purely technical standpoint he's not in the same league with Stanley, Jaco, Victor, etc..., but his lines are a thing of beauty. I've incorporated a lot of "McCartneyisms" into my playing the more I've listened to him. Phil Lesh is another one who was great at that, along with Sting. Phil especially had a unique way of not playing the root on 1, which contributed to that open sound of the Dead.

anyway... yes, you can really change the tonality of a chord by changing the bottom note. It works best in groups with piano/keyboard, especially Gospel, R&B and Jazz, but can be effective with guitar driven groups as well.

brad, have you ever broken a guitarist of insisting you play a root note to start, and if so how? one guitarist I jam with always wants the bass to start with the same thing the guitar is playing which makes it very hard to write something unique

[bassjones]

McCartney was a kind of primitive genius at this: defining the chord by changing the bottom note.

That's why McCartney is on my list of 10 favorite players. From a purely technical standpoint he's not in the same league with Stanley, Jaco, Victor, etc..., but his lines are a thing of beauty. I've incorporated a lot of "McCartneyisms" into my playing the more I've listened to him. Phil Lesh is another one who was great at that, along with Sting. Phil especially had a unique way of not playing the root on 1, which contributed to that open sound of the Dead.

anyway... yes, you can really change the tonality of a chord by changing the bottom note. It works best in groups with piano/keyboard, especially Gospel, R&B and Jazz, but can be effective with guitar driven groups as well.

brad, have you ever broken a guitarist of insisting you play a root note to start, and if so how? one guitarist I jam with always wants the bass to start with the same thing the guitar is playing which makes it very hard to write something unique

I'm going to assume he hasn't been playing long... Also, you do have to play to the style of the music. Some stuff - trad. country comes to mind - does require the root on one most of the time. Just stick to chord tones for now - preferable the root, 3rd, and 5th. If you hit the 3rd on beat one and then drop to the root, he'll get used to it eventually. Make him listen to the Grateful Dead. Very simple music, but Phil always did some interesting things displacing the root note.

[Silencio]

Make him listen to the Grateful Dead...

Yeah, that'll get rid of him.

[bassjones]

Make him listen to the Grateful Dead...

Yeah, that'll get rid of him.

I'm a recent convert actually. I hated the Dead for a long time because of that whole stupid hippie culture, then I picked up a Jazz is Dead disc, then a "best of", then I actually listened to some live recordings. Still wouldn't be the first CD I'd grab to listen to, but they wrote some very cool things. Phil's bass playing is golden, but I wish they'd never let him sing...

[sevesd93]

Make him listen to the Grateful Dead...

Just make sure he is not driving.

We wouldn't want him to fall asleep behind the wheel...

[jarts]

Another good artist for nonstandard progressions is pixes/early frank black. I dont dig on his newer stuff, but in his earlier solo stuff you can really hear how his chords just dance around the melodies. Of course TMBG do the same thing.

I personally love dim and aug chords, but they can be tricky bitches!

Alot of times Ill start with a melody and basic chord structure, then try out all sorts of substitutions that either contain or infer the melody notes.

[Bjart Sod]

When all else fails, modulate!

To add to the TMBG comments: listen to their song "She's an Angel" and realize that it's only four chords. Rhythm and voicing can do a lot for variety, even when the chords are pretty dull.

[QuiNSANiTy]

Some of the people on here put some good ideas down. I will tell you that in terms of writing music. You have to understand the music and why it was created.

If you heard Giant Steps by John Coltrane you will know it wasn't meant for dancing. If you have no background in jazz, you probably won't appreciate it. But at the same time, the same person who wrote Giant Steps is the same person who played my favorite things and improvised modal changes. Honestly I doubt that Giant Steps has anything to do with normal everyday people. If you listen to Britney Spears you know the music isn't for deep thinking. If you listen to James Brown you know exactly what that music is for.

There is no right way to do "everything". What I mean is, you can't take one formula and expect that it will cover all music.

For Example: basic blues/rock form uses I IV V. You know the melody outlines a "blues scale". but that same formula doesn't always apply to latin music, but you might use the same scale, that same scale might be used different.... get it?

There is more then harmony to writing music. You have Time, meters, key changes, scales, passing tones/phrasing, and of course the one that always gets over looked, texture and silence.

So as a serious writer. You have to study all of this to a 'certain extent' if your really looking to expand past simple format. You can 'over do it' too you know.. I mean , a suggestion from me to you is, don't say everything, say what you need to say a different way. Music is a language, so learn vocabulary of different artist and style ( writing or improvising)Then find out how many ways you can say the same thing, a different way.

Seriously, take a melody such as three blind mouse or hot cross buns and find out how many ways you can arrange it. First start off in the same key for the arrangements.

So basically if your trying to expand your writing skills. First understand what your goal or objective is, what emotion are you trying to capture?
Why during dream, or time travel scene in a movie do they use Augmented chords and whole tone scales? Ask yourself why when you listening to different forms and styles.

Why in funk music is there rarely any union? Why is there more unison in rock? Why is a lot of cuban music in 6/4 or 6/8?

cont.

[QuiNSANiTy]

I know this is a lot for a question about harmony. My friend, if you want to check out harmony , sure pick up a guitar book. I would pick up a rock/jazz theory book. One that has chords AND scales AND progressions. Just study that for reference. DON'T just read a classical music theory book. WHY? cause when you gig and your trying to explain to someone what your doing don't tell them D 6 inverson. Instead you tell them d Major with the 3rd in the bass. Classical isn't the universal language in the gigging world anymore.

I suggest trying out the other suggestions to help your writing then the harmony suggestion. Just keep in mind that you can't just expand over night, it takes time. Also when you read these theory book. Understand that a small classical background helps. You know, understanding keys and scale. But just remember Harmony isn't all there is in music. Many components work together. You can take a drummer and singer and make music. Harmony helps but I would think of harmony as helping set the scenery to your story.

And if your thinking about improving your improvisation. I would suggest listening to forms and asking the question why things work like I said in the other post. Many jazzers were great song writers because they understood "HOW things worked". And guys like Charlie Parker who quoted "I just play what your playing" , could solo over ANYTHING because he understood all that was going on around him. Just think, no charlie parker, no coltrane, no miles davis.. No miles davis.. No ALOT of things!! Scary huh??

Okay I'm done. hope that helps.

[Pullimic]

That's why McCartney is on my list of 10 favorite players. From a purely technical standpoint he's not in the same league with Stanley, Jaco, Victor, etc..., but his lines are a thing of beauty. I've incorporated a lot of "McCartneyisms" into my playing the more I've listened to him. Phil Lesh is another one who was great at that, along with Sting. Phil especially had a unique way of not playing the root on 1, which contributed to that open sound of the Dead.

anyway... yes, you can really change the tonality of a chord by changing the bottom note. It works best in groups with piano/keyboard, especially Gospel, R&B and Jazz, but can be effective with guitar driven groups as well.

brad, have you ever broken a guitarist of insisting you play a root note to start, and if so how? one guitarist I jam with always wants the bass to start with the same thing the guitar is playing which makes it very hard to write something unique

I'm going to assume he hasn't been playing long... Also, you do have to play to the style of the music. Some stuff - trad. country comes to mind - does require the root on one most of the time. Just stick to chord tones for now - preferable the root, 3rd, and 5th. If you hit the 3rd on beat one and then drop to the root, he'll get used to it eventually. Make him listen to the Grateful Dead. Very simple music, but Phil always did some interesting things displacing the root note.

actually he's been playing for over 15 years, usually in cover bands and the bands usually play a lot of the same material. i think that might be part of the problem. for instance though he has a song written in G, it starts in G but I want to start the bass riff in C cause I like how it sounds but he claims it's sour...any time I play a note other than what he's playing he gets bent out of shape(unless it's a run but it has to start on the root of chord he's playin) btw we play rock music

[Bjart Sod]

More on the melody topic, it doesn't apply to just soloing. Sometimes you can find more creative approaches to a song by approaching your rhythm part as if you were creating a counter melody to the lead. Listen to the alternating sections in a big band arrangement or the clarinet and trombone in a traditional jazz group. Or listen to the horns in a funk or R&B song. When writing guitar parts for old timey country or various swing styles, the greats always emphasis thinking of a moving tenor line inside the chords.

Once you work in extended chords and alternate voicings, you can even turn those counter melodies into chord melodies. Or you can let your melody sit on top of some fancy picking. Johnny Marr from The Smiths routinely worked in that fashion. With him, even songs that were simpler chord-wise were really brought to life that way: "Reel Around the Fountain" and "Big Mouth Strikes Again" come to mind.

Alternately, sometimes less is more. How often did Andy Summers from The Police play full fat chords? The lead guitar part to the chorus of "Don't Stand So Close To Me" is only five notes long. And two of those are so muted they barely count.