school shootings

[Massage...Bored]

Snack foods, specifically Twinkies

"Tell him about the Twinkie, Ray."

[Morphine Child]

I like G Fresh's response about the media. While I don't think the media is the only reason, I think it may be a tipping point for a troubled youth. It seems, if my memory serves me correctly, that school shootings were far more rare before Columbine which was all over the news nonstop. Then there was a series of semi-copycat incidents in the following years.

Though in order to get to the point that you're thinking that is a good idea, there has to be some bad parenting, some social torment and outcasting, and in some cases a mental disorder.

[sharkmansix]

if my memory serves me correctly, that school shootings were far more rare before Columbine which was all over the news nonstop.

Nope, the media just didn't report them. Here's a list from wiki:

Bath School disaster - Bath, Michigan, United States; May 18, 1927 (45 dead, 58 injured)

Poe Elementary School Attack - Houston, Texas, United States; September 15, 1959 (6 dead)

Cologne School Massacre - Cologne, Germany; June 11, 1964 (11 dead)

University of Texas at Austin Tower Massacre - Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966 (15 dead, 31 injured)

Avivim school bus massacre, Israel by Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP); 1970 (12 dead, 9 children)

Ma'alot massacre, Israel by DFLP (see [2]); 1974 (26 dead, 60 injured)

California State University, Fullerton Library Massacre - Fullerton,

California, United States; July 12, 1976 (7 dead)

École Polytechnique Massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 1989 (14 dead, 13 injured)

Stockton Massacre - Stockton, California, United States, 1989 (6 dead, 30 injured)

University of Iowa shooting - Iowa City, Iowa, United States; 1991 (5 dead, 1 injured)

Concordia University massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; August 24, 1992 (4 dead, 1 injured)

Dunblane massacre - Dunblane, Scotland, United Kingdom; March 13, 1996 (18 dead)

Sanaa massacre - Sanaa, Yemen; 1997 (8 dead)

Jonesboro massacre - Craighead County (near Jonesboro), Arkansas, United States; March 24, 1998 (6 dead, 10 injured)

Columbine High School massacre - Jefferson County (near Denver and Littleton), Colorado, United States; April 20, 1999 (15 dead, 24 injured)

Osaka school massacre - Ikeda, Osaka prefecture, Japan; 2001 (8 dead, 15 injured)

Erfurt massacre - Erfurt, Germany; 2002 (17 dead)

Beslan school hostage crisis - Beslan, Russia; 2004 (344 civilians, 20 service personnel, and 31 attackers dead; over 700 injured)

Red Lake High School massacre - Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; 2005 (10 dead, 15 injured)

Dawson College Shooting - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 2006 (2 dead, 19 injured)

Amish school shooting - Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States; 2006 (6 dead, 6 injured; numbers still subject to change)

Those are from around the world but it goes all the way back to 1927. IMHO this isn't a new problem, there's just a focus on it now.

[Grindspine]

Sociopathy fostered in humiliation/rejection/being bullied.

*nods*

[bassjones]

Sociopathy fostered in humiliation/rejection/being bullied.

*nods*

Not buying it - not totally anyway. Kids have always bullied and picked on other kids. I think it's that they're never allowed to fight back. Zero tolerance policies and all. And when they express themselves and act out in a little bit of anger, we medicate them into placidity. Anybody ever researched how many of these kids were on some sort of mood-altering/behavior-altering drugs? I don't know for sure, but if memory serves me correctly, it's been an overwhelming number. Now, perhaps the fact they were being medicated indicates they had these tendencies anyway, but what if the drugs were contributing factors to their coldness and lack of emotion. The survivors always describe them as "calm and cold" during the attacks, not out of control or acting in a fit of rage.

[The Hand of Poo]

The survivors always describe them as "calm and cold" during the attacks, not out of control or acting in a fit of rage.

I think that comes from the pre-meditated part. IMHO, those types of drugs make you more docile than anything.

There's 10 million pissed kids. Some of them have access to guns. Can you imagine if every goth kid had a access to a gun?

I'm not saying guns are at all responsible, but, I wonder what the deathtoll would be if you handed out guns at a high-school live-action roleplaying event.

Point: There would be even more of this if guns were easily accessible to a certain demographic.

[WBOB]

Another perspective.
I know I'll get flak for this,... but still,an interesting quote
from the daughter of Billy Graham on school shootings.

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr.Benjamin Spock said we should! n't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr.Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about and we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

[sharkmansix]

I'll be brief. The bible also say a lot of stuff that isn't as positive. Just because it has some relative moral guidance doesn't mean the whole book is filled with it.

Maybe if you presented it in a science fiction class then maybe you could get away with it; but those stories are pretty predictable. You'd be better set reviewing '1984' or maybe '2001: A Space Oddessy'.

(P.S. there's a bit of sarcasm in the last paragraph. )

[WBOB]

^ not what it is implying,.. but I get your drift.

[sharkmansix]

Then I'm confused; what are you implying?

[WBOB]

I wasn't, the article was.

I took it as not neccessarily pushing the bible
itself, but religion in general with all the
PC minutiae that has permeated society
especially in the last few years.

We've become so worried about what someone
might say about any stated belief system, that
we end up having none at all.

I don't expect agreement on this, as I originally stated,
just another POV.

[The Hand of Poo]

On the flipside to the copycat/media exploitation of these events, bullying and being rude in general is also exponentially glorified on TV too.

We seem to be producing more angst-filled nerds than ever. Maybe we should keep violence on TV, just make it between skinny guys in glasses and pathetic catchphrases, sorta switch up the alpha male.

[WaitUntilTomorrow]

I forking hate how many people forget that kids are a blank slate. They reproduce and send them off into the world. They pay people $40 an hour to talk to them instead of developing relationships with them. They do things and say things, then are blown away by how awful their children are turning when they do and say the same things. I'm not a fan of blaming parents for how lives turn out. By a certain age, we're all able to take care of ourselves, and change things if we need to. We can't sit around crying about our horrible childhoods for the rest of our lives. But kids are going to schools and learning a completely messed up way of life, and they come home, and have no alternatives to learn from. We're told, 'That's life, get used to it,' but it really isn't. We're told that life is crap and there's nothing we can do about it. We're so focused on taking care of our lives, getting through school, getting a good job, finding a partner, etc., that I'm afraid we're forgetting some basic tools for living. Parents seem to forget that it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to teach their kids about things like self respect, self worth, doing what feels right, how to even FEEL what is right, how to have your own opinions...I understand that no parent is perfect. I understand that in a perfect world, everyone would be completely together before they procreated, but in reality, we have a lot of people having kids who aren't ready. But it's imperative that they understand that they absolutely HAVE to be completely dedicated to their child's life. They have to remember that the village does not, in fact, raise the child. At six, at sixteen, whatever. That's what being a parent is. You take care of yourself, but as soon as that kid comes into this world, they're a walking 'input', and you are their most readily available and constantly viewable 'output'. Can we all look back to our 13-18 years? Can most of us relate to how horribly isolated and afraid of the world this kid must have felt? Those of us who had people to talk to about it, or good parents, or at least resources to express it, can we imagine NOT having that, not even knowing that it's possible?

We're in a society of anti-depressants and self-help books. We think this makes us better off than fifty years ago. And I guess in some ways we are. But reading a book, or taking a pill, can never teach us what we should've learned about just being human. Hopefully, maybe, we can get older and realize we're not that bad off, and turn things around. But sometimes we can't make it to 'older'. I don't know. I feel like there's way too much living from the outside in, instead of the other way around. We know what we need. We know how to take care of ourselves and be happy people. But we have no examples of it, anywhere. It makes me think of songs in tribes that are lost because they're slowly forgotten from generation to generation. We're losing the concept of feeling ok. We're losing the concept of balance, and of safety. (No wonder. Anybody see Robin Williams shtick on terrorism on the Jimmy Kimmel show? Exactly that.) THAT's what I think is going wrong. The family unit is no longer safe. We have no base to come back to. We're as afraid of home as we are of 'out there'. We're not told we'll be accepted no matter what. We're told we'll be accepted if we play by someone else's rules, which makes us feel like f**k ups and even more isolated. We grow up having zero sense of safety, and the older we get, the worse it gets, until we're so afraid we start shooting people.

Man, I really have to pee now.