Open Letter to Promoters and Such..

[Recordstar]

What's your band worth???? $10 per man....$50..$100..??? for 3-4set gig ?? Providing the band can play a 3-4 set gig.

[sharkmansix]

What's your band worth???? $10 per man....$50..$100..??? for 3-4set gig ?? Providing the band can play a 3-4 set gig.

I'm a little confused by your answer. Honestly, how much should a band walk away with at the end of a night?

$10 / per player = apx $30 - $40 dollars.

[Recordstar]

iPod isn't "live entertainment"
Bands should do some promo work.
What % of the advertising/promo budget is the responsibility of:...venue?...band???

[sharkmansix]

What % of the advertising/promo budget is the responsibility of:...venue?...band???

I would say the venue's responsibility is almost none. Maybe some 'shout outs' about upcoming gig over the PA but that's about it.

IMHO 99% is up to the bands. It seems upfair but the venue is providing the space and everything else that goes along with it (insurance, bar, etc.) They feel as if they're already handing the band a 'spotlight' why should they then spend money on your bands PR.

If they did start making flyers and PR I would guess most bands wouldn't like the final product.


***

The reason I'm asking about payment is that if a band doesn't know what they should get paid, how will the venue know how much to pay?

I see it all the time with semi-professional designers. They want to make professional money but they aren't nearly professional enough. With bands it's constant and neverending.

Take a look at the shows that have good turnouts. What do they all have in common, good DIY promotion. The band has photos taken, they make a website (or better yet they hire a web designer!), they don't focus on Myspace to promote their gigs, they make gigposters and hang them out everywhere.

I think to be precieved as a professional band the band needs to carry themselves as professionals.

[sharkmansix]

iPod isn't "live entertainment"

True. But it costs a lot less then a band and the audience usually doesn't care what's playing; just as long as it's something they like.

I've seen many a venue stop having bands play because of what is involved. It's a lot easier to please the crowd and play whatever is popular over the PA as opposed to original music.

For the venue it's almost a safer bet.

[Massage...Bored]

I agree with Ollie when he says that "you have to learn to work within the system".

You will not win over any promoter around the area with acting big and demanding money. They will laugh at you, remember you, and kick you out of the venue if they see you there again. It happens, trust me. You've got to play their game in this town, or as I have dreamed but have no money, start your own all ages venue and do things differently there. I'd love to play there, I'd love to work with a guy that wants the best for musicians (Simple Tim) young and old in this area. Most clubs in this town do stil have auditions, at C Street you could share a Tuesday or Thursday with someone and throw in a couple covers for Richard to hear. But you'll never get an all original act in there on the weekend because the owner wants to sell alcohol and requests something familiar, a "bar band", as does almost every other club owner.

[Recordstar]

I agree in most part what you are saying...BUT... for the"professional" that plays 3 to 4 sets 5- 6 nights per week to make a living this does not happen. It becomes time to step up a notch..he obtains a qualfied agent that is established to book gigs that are finacially sound (at least $9600 per month ) so he can pay for insurance, car, rent/mortgage food, clothing...etc... that means a 4 pc band has to be making (before taxes)$2400 per week..unfortunately there are not that many venues in Ft Wayne paying this. Welcome to the road !!!!.....by the way..when I first came to Ft Wayne..that's the money we were making at 2 venues here...one of those places was the old "Imperial House Black Rose Room" now Don Halls Guest House, and the venue did ALL of the advertising, that was 31 years ago....my how the music scene has changed...

[Recordstar]

Who created this "system" the band have to work in...seems to me over time they created their own "Catch 22"

[Massage...Bored]

Who created this "system" the band have to work in...seems to me over time they created their own "Catch 22"

Its been that way for at least the past 5 years, thats how long I've been in it, so don't shoot the messenger. Not my fault.

[sharkmansix]

hat means a 4 pc band has to be making (before taxes)$2400 per week..unfortunately there are not that many venues in Ft Wayne paying this. Welcome to the road !!!!.....by the way..when I first came to Ft Wayne..that's the money we were making at 2 venues here...one of those places was the old "Imperial House Black Rose Room" now Don Halls Guest House, and the venue did ALL of the advertising, that was 31 years ago....my how the music scene has changed...

I don't know a single band that makes over $500 per week. sh*t I only know of one 'house' band that makes $2000 per/month. Maybe if you were in an oldies cover band then you could be making that kind of cash; (it's summer and car shows are coming up.)

And yes a lot has changed in 31 years, concidering I'm 27.

Welcome to the 2000's my friend.

[Recordstar]

I see I created numerous responses regarding venus pro and con and the value local musicians put on their talent, efforts and credit cards. I appreciate the feedback as it has helped me tremendously in evaluating the Ft. Wayne music market. Singles, duo's, and acoustic trios can play one nighters 4-6 nights a week and make decent money if they put in the effort to obtain the bookings. All you need to do is read the entertainment sections of the local papers to know who they are. Cudo's to them for their diligence and craftman ship. I have found most of them have exceptional talent and worth much more than they are getting. For myself, I'll continue to place the group I manage on the casino circuit and Las Vega. It was not my intention to create "bladder" problems for anyone....but sometimes it is interesting to see how serious some can get over a little staged diversion from the norm. And 30 with that.

[sharkmansix]

For myself, I'll continue to place the group I manage on the casino circuit and Las Vega. It was not my intention to create "bladder" problems for anyone....but sometimes it is interesting to see how serious some can get over a little staged diversion from the norm. And 30 with that.

I have to say I'm rather confused. You sound like a semi-professional band manager from I'm guessing the west coast, except you don't have a website or any kind of promotion associated with your nick. So I checked your email and it was listed as FOXGROVEMUSIC@aol.com.

I have to ask does AOL.com seem professional to you?

So anyways I looked online for a Fox Grove Music website. Google and Wikipedia have never heard of Fox Grove Music (or any other possible spelling, FOXGROVE MUSIC, FOX GROVEMUSIC). When I asked Jeeves he told me to go screw.

They do have web designers in Las Vegas don't they?

[Recordstar]

I didn't know a web site made a person a professional. I choose NOT to have a web site at this time. If and when I find the right person/site designer to develop one for me I'll do it at that time. I am kept busy enough as it is without a web site. Your ignorance is shown in trying to research the non-researchable...why didn't you just ask me directly??? You run your mouth about me, knowing nothing about my operation, yet infer that I am a "semi-professional". I've supported my family and put 2 kids thru college with music...you don't do that on a "semi-pro" basis.
Enough of this now...what started out as a "rib" sure must have gotten to you. Now let it lie.

[Oliver's Army]

So I guess I will be the one to ask....

What bands do you represent Recordstar? Names please.

And I am not in the habit of quoting myself, however

Recordstar, I appreciate what your trying to do, but with the business sense you exhibit here I fear that you will be doing any clients you may have a terrible disservice.

And you must recognize that when you make statements that go against what most all of us know as truths via working and gigging the very market that you want to break into, then chastise us for countering your points, it fares poorly upon you.

[Recordstar]

Evidently you didn't read the last 2 lines of my previous posting.