SADDAM TO BE HANGED IN NEXT 48 HOURS...

[WBOB]

North Korea with their Nukes was and remains a bigger threat.

I'd consider them 2nd in this regard.

IMHO, Iran is much more of an imment threat to
stability than N.Korea. Though that could change later.

Developing Nukes for so called "peaceful" progress while
publicly urging its constituents to kill infidels(anyone that
doesn't praise Allah) while calling for the annihilation of Israel.
Also arming the insurgency in Iraq and the arming the
Hezbollah in Lebanon is "hands on" evil in progress.

[Grindspine]

You are an idiot. You should read up before you come in here and make these retarded comments. The U.S. was not the only country that killed or wanted to kill Saddam. Open up a newspaper jackass.

Great personal attacks, "jackass."

[sevesd93]

Thank you

[Sankofa]

North Korea with their Nukes was and remains a bigger threat.

I'd consider them 2nd in this regard.

Either way, the US attack of Iraq was a short sighted move in an area needing long term planning.

[bassjones]

Quote:
Were we wrong to get involved there?



In WWII the British and Russia were trying to stop a madman and we saw that we needed to step in. With Saddam we were the only country (other than Britain)that decided something should be done...not a lot of support there.

There were more than 40 countries supporting our decision actually, and the ones that weren't had oil interests and interests in covering up their involvement in the Oil for Food con.

Also, it wasn't short-sighted to go into Iraq. If anything, it was too far-sighted. There was a legitimate long-term goal to democratize that area of the world because democracies don't often produce terrorists. The war itself was very succesful - too succesful probably. We moved too quickly, failed to kill enough of the Hussein supporters, failed to secure the border with Iraq and Syria (where most of the so-called "insurgents" are coming from), and generally failed to recognize the effort that was going to be necessary to finish the rebuilding. I personally think we didn't do enough deconstruction and that's why the reconstruction is going so poorly, but that's probably not a popular opinion.

[jforbes]

bassjones - Thank you!

You beat me to it!

see above.

[jforbes]

You all do of course know that many countries such as Japan had naval fleets, and ground troops in and around Iraq and Afghanistan, until terrorist threats started heavily appearing around their countries.

[Sankofa]

it wasn't short-sighted to go into Iraq.

Considering the limitations of our armed forces and the chaos us invading brought forth, I'd say it was more than short sighted-it was foolish and prideful.

[Morphine Child]

Quote:

Also, it wasn't short-sighted to go into Iraq. If anything, it was too far-sighted. There was a legitimate long-term goal to democratize that area of the world because democracies don't often produce terrorists. The war itself was very succesful - too succesful probably. We moved too quickly, failed to kill enough of the Hussein supporters, failed to secure the border with Iraq and Syria (where most of the so-called "insurgents" are coming from), and generally failed to recognize the effort that was going to be necessary to finish the rebuilding. I personally think we didn't do enough deconstruction and that's why the reconstruction is going so poorly, but that's probably not a popular opinion.

I still don't see how that justifies WAR. It justifies defending ourselves and answering for ourselves, as we've always done. As we did immediately after 9/11. We've been fighting this "war on terror" for years before 9/11, but it was not a "war" per se. And of course the actual declaration of war brought forth even more anger from terrorists. Even more desire to kill Americans. I know there was a previous topic that contained a list of pre and post 9/11 attacks...the number jumped up drastically post 9/11.

I'm not a total pacifist, but I can't support a war that is trying to force democracy upon a country (and eventually other countries) that is nowhere near developed enough to stand on its own two feet. You say it's been a "great success", and then you list four things which were four rather crucial elements in this war being a "Success. You also included that we totally failed at not killing enough people. We should really work on killing more people. Though nearly 30,000 people are dead. But as the old cliche says, one death is a tragedy, thousands are a statistic. But hey, it's better than 30,000 Americans right?

It's a shame we couldn't have had little puppet governments like we successfully developed in many Latin and South American countries.

[ABDUCT]

We should have shot the SOB when we found him in that hole in the ground. Is this going to be on pay-per-view?

you can find it on the internet, along with footage of people jumping off buildings and suicides where the individual sets their forehead directly on the railroad tracks. I like the way the brains are splattered across the sheets of metal, just as I like the way Saddam's dead body dangles amidst a new, beautiful, calm, and resolved region of the mideast. Thank God we killed this SOB, especially since our resources were'nt completely wasted on this retard. I think we should prolly start thinkin about our own coming back in body bags, twisted and mangled.

[Morphine Child]

We should have shot the SOB when we found him in that hole in the ground. Is this going to be on pay-per-view?

you can find it on the internet, along with footage of people jumping off buildings and suicides where the individual sets their forehead directly on the railroad tracks. I like the way the brains are splattered across the sheets of metal, just as I like the way Saddam's dead body dangles amidst a new, beautiful, calm, and resolved region of the mideast. Thank God we killed this SOB, especially since our resources were'nt completely wasted on this retard. I think we should prolly start thinkin about our own coming back in body bags, twisted and mangled.

This post caused Tool's "Vicarious" to start playing in my head.

[WBOB]

This post caused Tool's "Vicarious" to start playing in my head.

..after reading most of the above, I'm rummaging through the
closet for an old white shirt so I can make a flag to wave.


Those who think we're totally failing miltarily here, need to make
note of the comments you hear from our own military on what's
happening in total over there(turn off most of the mainstream
media chatter and this can be heard). Out of the 19 provinces
in Iraq, they are reporting 16 of them are considered "secure".
We only get to here about those pesky other 3. Also, the major
rebuilding of institutions/schools/hospitals are either way under-reported,
or totally ignored. This is absolutely worth it. Left unchecked, we would have been doing this in 2025 or so, but it would have been a far more horrific experience for all of us and I think far more casualties.

Saddam = bye, bye and good riddance.

[bassjones]

I still don't see how that justifies WAR. It justifies defending ourselves and answering for ourselves, as we've always done. As we did immediately after 9/11. We've been fighting this "war on terror" for years before 9/11, but it was not a "war" per se. And of course the actual declaration of war brought forth even more anger from terrorists. Even more desire to kill Americans. I know there was a previous topic that contained a list of pre and post 9/11 attacks...the number jumped up drastically post 9/11.

So, the terrorists who hated us and wanted us dead now hate us more and want us more dead? And if we were "fighting" before 9/11, we were the equivalent of the favored heavyweight champion walking around the ring, taking body punches and not punching back, or even covering up and defending himself. Then finally, he takes a punch right on the nose, wakes up, gets pissed off and kicks the sh*t out of the little peon who doesn't belong in the ring with him. Then he calms back down and lets the twerp back in the fight.

[WBOB]

^ Cool boxing analogy

[Morphine Child]

So, the terrorists who hated us and wanted us dead now hate us more and want us more dead?

I'd say there are probably even more people that want us dead than the ones that already wanted us dead.

And if we were "fighting" before 9/11, we were the equivalent of the favored heavyweight champion walking around the ring, taking body punches and not punching back, or even covering up and defending himself. Then finally, he takes a punch right on the nose, wakes up, gets pissed off and kicks the sh*t out of the little peon who doesn't belong in the ring with him. Then he calms back down and lets the twerp back in the fight.

So is the war in Iraq the KO then? I don't see how that would work. You take out one "opponent" and you have another. There is a never ending string of "opponents" with terrorism. And when we've eliminated this generation of terrorists, then we'll have the next generation to deal with. So where does one war take us that a series of small covert bombings and attacks couldn't take us? I don't want to generalize or pinpoint, but a quite a few terrorist attacks have happened against America because we're considered to be "infidels" by a few fundamentalist Muslims. So what do we do, kill all the fundamentalist Muslims? I'm sure a lot of people would scream out, "yes!", but that's freaking ridiculous.

Also, are you implying that we destroy and rebuild every country that harbors terrorism or is not a democracy? Because that would be interesting, and long, and everyone would end up dead. Hell, the American government is a terrorist by the definition of terrorist. "hmm...we don't like that political leader. He's not doing exactly what we want. We'll assassinate him and put a convenient little puppet government in his place."