Import Cars

[Haggard]

I just read on CNN that import cars are now outselling U.S. auto manufacturers. In doing that, I am reminded of a point I once tried to make in an argument. Many people complain of a lack of jobs and have a definite problem with our factories closing and/or moving to a foreign locale. My whole argument was that if you didn't want jobs to leave you should absolutely do whatever you could to not buy foreign goods. It amazes me with cars that people will go for the fly by night Kia or Hyundai deals, undermining sales of U.S. automakers. When or where does this stop? With us being totally dependent on import cars? I know a lot of U.S. auto makers are trying to be competitive with these new low quality imports, but they get into this whole other problem of not being able to convince a workforce to take a pay cut in order to keep their jobs producing cheaper cars.

[bwohlgemuth]

First, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, and a number of other "foreign" firms source most of their parts from US manufacturers. The reason behind this is easy...

a). Superior engineering within the US.
b). Superior manufacturing techniques within the US.
c). Less cost of transport.

Now, with all of these reasons, why aren't the big three just dominating in manufacturing? Because they became so large where their bureaucracy overrides the natural urge to become more efficient. Say you come up with a great technique to make a car, one that will cut the costs of making a car in half with the same level of quality. Unfortunately, that process will eliminate half of the workforce. As an owner of this firm, what do you do?

Of course, you could fire the workforce, or retrain them, or gain market share by lowering costs, or just ignore the change and put the company in peril when someone else becomes more efficient. This is what the Japanese, Germans, Koreans (and you better include India pretty soon!) can do. GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler is in this fix because they didn't, living off their "gains" in the 1990's while the foreign firms were investing and retooling.

When GM, Ford, and Chrysler can shed most of their middle management, focus on specific customer needs, and deliver a superior product; customers will come running back to them.

I refuse to "Buy American" just to save someone's job because their boss was scared or stupid.

[cwallace]

Don't forget China...they have an auto line coming out also...there is even a dealer coming to Fort Wayne with them...

Chris

[bwohlgemuth]

Don't forget China...they have an auto line coming out also...there is even a dealer coming to Fort Wayne with them...

The only way a Chinese firm will survive is if they outsource their engineering to Australia or another foreign firm. Chinese engineering tends to be a bit...lacking.

IF it's the Chinese firm I am thinking of, it failed the EU's safety testing, which means the NTSB won't allow it on the road unless it can meet the US safety requirements (which are stricker!).

[Haggard]

First, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, and a number of other "foreign" firms source most of their parts from US manufacturers. The reason behind this is easy...

a). Superior engineering within the US.
b). Superior manufacturing techniques within the US.
c). Less cost of transport.

Now, with all of these reasons, why aren't the big three just dominating in manufacturing? Because they became so large where their bureaucracy overrides the natural urge to become more efficient. Say you come up with a great technique to make a car, one that will cut the costs of making a car in half with the same level of quality. Unfortunately, that process will eliminate half of the workforce. As an owner of this firm, what do you do?

Of course, you could fire the workforce, or retrain them, or gain market share by lowering costs, or just ignore the change and put the company in peril when someone else becomes more efficient. This is what the Japanese, Germans, Koreans (and you better include India pretty soon!) can do. GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler is in this fix because they didn't, living off their "gains" in the 1990's while the foreign firms were investing and retooling.

When GM, Ford, and Chrysler can shed most of their middle management, focus on specific customer needs, and deliver a superior product; customers will come running back to them.

I refuse to "Buy American" just to save someone's job because their boss was scared or stupid.

I do not contend that a lot of the parts are manufactured/assembled here on import cars. I work for a company that makes weatherstrip for cars. All of the rubber material is imported and we extrude and finish the product for the customers. I think my job will one day be in jeopardy because of the idea that buying cheaper materials is better. The good thing is I have a degree and am very flexible in being able to land a new job. The bad thing is a lot of the U.S. automotive workforce has failed to educate themselves and now that their jobs are in jeopardy they are finding it impossible to adapt to a different company, due to lack of skills.

[bwohlgemuth]

I work for a company that makes weatherstrip for cars. All of the rubber material is imported and we extrude and finish the product for the customers.

How many rubber trees did you drive past on the way to Wabash (at least I am assuming it's Wabash, my brother in law is an engineer over there).

The bad thing is a lot of the U.S. automotive workforce has failed to educate themselves and now that their jobs are in jeopardy they are finding it impossible to adapt to a different company, due to lack of skills.

And who's fault is that? The government's? I do think there is a point of "self-responsibility" that has to kick in. IT's like the people at Dana out in Andrews. They knew the end was coming, and when it did, a bunch just panicked as opposed to preparing for the change.

With the number of programs that are out there, it's only ego or laziness which is preventing people from learning a more productive trade. And I can make that call, since I have seen these programs in action.

[cwallace]

Totally agree with the responsibility of the individuals. It is time we stopped holding everyone's hands and let them fend for themselves...the signs are evident that there are job losses happening every day. You don't just wake up one morning and find your job is gone...there are signs...

I see it on the news...I know these people have and watch TV.

Chris

[bwohlgemuth]

You don't just wake up one morning and find your job is gone...there are signs...

There are people who really cannot function at that level (due to intelligence, education, carelessness, etc). Those people should get some sort of help, but nothing beyond what is already offered (how many programs are out there for free college for low income people!)

[=^-..-^=]

Another factor hidering American automakers is pensions. Ford has more retired people on its payroll than it has active workers. Something like $1500 - 2000 of an American car's cost goes to paying pensions.The foreign makers won't have that problem for another 40 years.

Yeah, it would be nice to buy American, but even domestic cars are made from parts around the world; and foreign cars are made with American parts, or in America.

But actually, foreign car companies with no factories in America still employ thousands of Americans - in marketing, distribution, maintenance, and dealerships.

[bassjones]

I disagree with the assertion that these foreign cars are lower quality than their Domestic counterparts. W/o question Honda, Toyota and Nissan all have much higher quality scores than any domestic offering and frankly, Kia and Hyundai are getting better scores now too. That's just on original quality. Factor in long-term reliability and the Honda and Toyota offerings absolutely KILL the domestics. Nissan and Mazda are still much better, and the Kia and Hyundai offerings are probably too young to tell for sure, but look to be on par or better than the domestics. Add in the 10 year, 100K mile warranty and people have been willing to take the chance on them. GM and Ford finally got on board w/ extending their factory warranty and Chrysler is now offering a lifetime powertrain warranty on Jeep products (though I've not read one to pick apart the fine print yet - and probably won't).

Then factor in average fuel consumption and the assinine business decisions/union negotiation cavings of the big 3, and you've got to figure they're going under.

They're in trouble because they gave too much to the unions and now they have to figure out a way to pay for it, so their cars cost too much for the quality of the vehicle and they can't sell enough of them to make a profit.

[G Fresh]

I've gotta be honest, so far I absolutely love my new Kia Spectra. The fuel efficiency and safety alone make it a great car, but you factor in the 10 year 100 K warranty and the 5 year 60 K bumper to bumper and it makes it hard to top, especially in my limited funds price range.

[Garr]

My dad has worked for GM for over 20 years. I don't know what that means, but it means something. . .I think. Anyhow, I think that Toyota has moved manufacture to the U.S. in order to garner more support for their product. When the U.S. is sending tons of its work to Mexico to make parts and assemble cars, I am appalled. I worked for a secondary aluminum smelter for nearly three years and about 40% of our alloyed metal went to parts makers in Canada and Mexico where parts were made and then shipped back to the US for manufacture, or kept there for the same purpose.

[Haggard]

I work for a company that makes weatherstrip for cars. All of the rubber material is imported and we extrude and finish the product for the customers.

How many rubber trees did you drive past on the way to Wabash (at least I am assuming it's Wabash, my brother in law is an engineer over there).

The bad thing is a lot of the U.S. automotive workforce has failed to educate themselves and now that their jobs are in jeopardy they are finding it impossible to adapt to a different company, due to lack of skills.

And who's fault is that? The government's? I do think there is a point of "self-responsibility" that has to kick in. IT's like the people at Dana out in Andrews. They knew the end was coming, and when it did, a bunch just panicked as opposed to preparing for the change.

With the number of programs that are out there, it's only ego or laziness which is preventing people from learning a more productive trade. And I can make that call, since I have seen these programs in action.

I work in Topeka.

I know there is the whole "self responsibility" issue, but at some point you also have to be for the advancement of everyone, and personally if I can help someone have a moment of happiness by being unselfish I do what I can.

As far as quality scores, are those entirely unbiased or do they favor the highest bidder? I have never bought into the notion of quality scores, just long term statistics on who has the most vehicles lasting 10-15 years. I thought it was funny on the recent Subaru commercial they were bragging that 95% of their cars were still on the road. I think they said that was after 10 years. To me, that is terrible. On the other hand I cannot say American cars last longer, so I really don't have a good argument.

[bassjones]

That's actually pretty dang good. Considering the average miles driven has gone up to over 15,000 per year, you've got to figure the average mileage for those cars is around 150,000. 95% survival rate at 150,000 mile average is pretty good. I've never owned one American car that old, with that kind of mileage that hadn't had some major repair on it - usually transmission replacement (Ford and Chrysler are the WORST!)

[conley]

My Toyota truck has 220,000 miles on it & still going strong. I think reliability is the big reason why domestic automakers are getting their butts kicked. Build me a reliable product, & I'll buy it...that's all I'm asking for.

Plus, I don't get the domestic automotive marketing strategy at all......Gee, gasoline is $3.00 a gallon, so let's promote this big car with.....a hemmy engine? Real smart one there, let's come out with a muscle car/ truck marketing strategy - that's what everybody in the world needs these days. Ford & chevy promote big trucks & Chrysler/ Dodge promotes their "hemmy". I just don't beleive that's what people want in an automobile in 2007......That might be part of the problem.