A serious question about our president

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:03 am

Haggard wrote:Ok. Aside from taxes any other positive actions?

No Child Left Behind - IMHO

Medicare drug plan - not IMHO, but most people apparently wanted it, if not the exact one they got.

Fighting back against terrorists - FINALLY!

no sex scandals in the Oval Office...

Stabilized economy after what could have been economic disaster - 911

Biggest failure - failed to privatize at least part of Social Security IMNSHO

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:11 am

For more information (and statistics and other references to back it up), read "Free Trade Under Fire" by Irwin. Easily makes the case why free trade brings countries out of poverty and pushes the overall wages of a country higher. Recent examples would be Vietnam, China, etc....

Countries that don't engage in free trade? Cuba, North Korea, most of the Middle East (except for Dubai, Israel, etc...). Which ones are in abject poverty?

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:59 am

bassjones wrote:
Haggard wrote:
Fighting back against terrorists - FINALLY!

I can't emphasize this enough: READ CHOMSKY! Bush made fighting terrorism headlines...not something that happens and we don't pay attention to. When every other thought out of the man's mouth is "war on terror", or "take your freedom", what the hell else are people going to think about? Pray that Zeus is with us, folks.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:20 am

When an author is on the must read list of 3rd world, tin-horn dictators like Venezuela's Chavez, I think I'll pass thank you very much.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:33 am

bassjones wrote: No Child Left Behind - IMHO

BULLSH*T! Have you been in a school system lately?

bassjones wrote: no sex scandals in the Oval Office...

You're really a simple, one-tracked creature.

bassjones wrote: Biggest failure - failed to gamble away at least part of Social Security IMNSHO

FIXED!

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:00 pm

You obviously have no clue how investing works. The stock market is not gambling. The average stock market return over the last 50 years is over 11% per year. Some dips, some peaks, but on average, over 11% per year. Meanwhile the SS fund is outpaced by inflation and the number of people drawing on it will soon surpass the number of people paying into it. I've had a 401K for less than 5 years and the amount of money in it has already surpassed the amount allocated to me in Social Security - at a very modest 3% invested out of a very modest sub $24,000 a year salary. I'm 36 and have paid into Social Security every year since I was 16. I've been pretty agressive and some of that aggressiveness has paid off handsomely. Any serious investigation of allocating 25% of the social security budget for voluntary divestment into privately controlled investment accounts shows that it would pay off handsomely for all who chose to participate and increase the money in the social security fund. Bump that up to 50% and it becomes a no-brainer decision.

Since the crash of '29, investing in the stock market is the best financial decision a person could possibly make, and there are now safeguards in place that should prevent anywhere near that level of economic catastrophe from ever occuring again.

You talk about Bush fear-mongering on terrorism. The threat of terror is far more realistic than any talk of social security going broke or old people losing out on their ss check ever was. Talk about fear mongering.

The schools were fxxx'd up long before Bush and NCLB. All indications (test scores, that is) are that it's working.

Haggard · Post by **Haggard** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:13 pm

WBOB wrote:
and the retort is "conspiracy"... Whatever...
umm maybe it was a joke?

Ok. Aside from taxes any other positive actions?
...asking the question backwards,.. what was the
argument between you & your coworkers?

the argument started when talking about presidents in general. we were discussing the major difference makers in the past and I thought, "gee what has our current pres done that will be remembered?"

Haggard · Post by **Haggard** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:20 pm

Personally I worry more about what laws the president passes that will negatively affect me much, much more than I worry about terrorism.

NCLB only works if parents make themselves accountable for their children.

And on that note, I am still waiting for viable, fact based proof of positive things Bush jr. has done.

Garr · Post by **Garr** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:42 pm

Chiming in late. . .

but I am lower middle class to upper lower class. . .and my wife and I have averaged about $35k a year for about 4 or 5 years now. I ALWAYS get a refund, and I got the rebate.

I don't know what the criteria were, but if I met them, most of you should have. . .

sharkmansix · Post by **sharkmansix** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:01 pm

Personally I worry more about what laws the president passes that will negatively affect me much, much more than I worry about terrorism.

Ditto. I, for one, am fearful of the secret police and their knock at my door.

I mean, the president can declare me an 'unlawful combatant' and lock me away without a trial. That's more scary then some terrorist, IMHO that is terrorism itself.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:11 pm

Quick note:

Only Congress can pass laws.
President can sign or veto them.

Haggard · Post by **Haggard** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:12 pm

then, by deduction, the president signing the law passes such law. especially in the era of no questions asked congress.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:16 pm

Haggard wrote:then, by deduction, the president signing the law passes such law. especially in the era of no questions asked congress.

You cannot be serious!

There's a list about 5 miles long of things the President has asked for and hasn't gotten. Not saying if that's good or bad, just stating the obvious.

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:14 pm

bassjones wrote:When an author is on the must read list of 3rd world, tin-horn dictators like Venezuela's Chavez, I think I'll pass thank you very much.

I wasn't aware of that, but it's besides the point. Chomsky is critical of American foreign policy for a good reason...because WE are terrorist by our own definition. But god forbid you read something unorthodox. You know, I've read quite a bit from totally different perspectives of my own in the past year. Lee Strobel, Conservative articles, Michael Behe, anything I could get my hands on that wasn't on my side...maybe you should try it?

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:17 am

Chavez quoted him in his UN speech... I've read some of his stuff before. I basically think he's full of sh*t.