Peace - At Any Cost

echosauce1 · Post by **echosauce1** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:12 am

[quote="bwohlgemuth"][quote]christians have killed more people than muslims.[/quote]
And asteroids have killed more dinosaurs than people....

[/quote]

And religion has killed more people than who???

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:58 am

echosauce1 wrote:
bwohlgemuth wrote:
christians have killed more people than muslims.
And asteroids have killed more dinosaurs than people....

And religion has killed more people than who???

Everybody except the non-religious...

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:02 am

Yeah, a lot of Apostolics, tons of 'em. It was (still is) the kind of community that if you weren't all about Jesus, they wouldn't acknowledge your existance.

Ah yes, the Apostolic Holiness movement. They probably hate me as much as they hate you, so don't fret it. And for most of them the "backwards redneck hick" thing definitely applies...

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:10 am

bassjones wrote: Ah yes, the Apostolic Holiness movement. They probably hate me as much as they hate you, so don't fret it. And for most of them the "backwards redneck hick" thing definitely applies...

Here's the thing, they are almost Amish (a lot of them cannot own TVs, and certain other items) and have to dress in a certain fashion. Yet, they are more radical than the actual Amish. Hell, the Amish were even nicer and more down to Earth than these fools. Advice, when you pass by an Amish buggy on the road, give 'em a wave. They're sure to wave back, maybe give ya a "Hello there, English", you owe it to them because they probably built the house you live in.

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:24 pm

DELETED

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:33 am

bassjones wrote:
Hitler.... all atheists and all attempted to wipe out all religions in their various empires.

Hitler wasn't an atheist.

"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe."

"Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise."
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:33 am

That was an attempt to appease the Catholics and Lutherans - not that much different than most of our American politicians and their public religiosity, though most of them have far less devious plans.

He considered religion to be for weak-minded people and after he was finished with the Jews he would have come after Christians next - well, maybe the communists first, but in short order.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:36 am

after he was finished with the Jews he would have come after Christians next

This is the same plan that President "Tom" from Iran
is starting to implement.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:00 pm

bassjones wrote:That was an attempt to appease the Catholics and Lutherans -

What is your evidence that he was an atheist? Even if he was going to go after Christians next that doesn't mean he believed there is no god. And there is no evidence that he denounced Christ or God. He professed throughout his life a belief in "the Lord", "the Creator", Jesus, etc. even in his personal notes and journals that were not published until after his death. On his own personal property he had Christian paraphernelia. He went to a Catholic school. He was baptized. One of his biggest influences was Martin Luther's book "The Jews and their Lies." He wrote time and time again about the evil's of following the laws of man instead of the laws of god. There are thousands of references made by Hitler affirming his beliefs, but where's the evidence otherwise?

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:20 pm

6 million dead jews for a start.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:26 pm

bassjones wrote:6 million dead jews for a start.

What's that have to do with believing there is no god? Do fanatical suicide bombers believe there is no god?

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:37 pm

I'd just like to make clear that I in no way endorse any of these viewpoints, and am merely citing them as evidence of Hitler's belief in god, and further, his belief in Christ as Lord, and that therefore he was not an atheist.

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:11 pm

bassjones wrote:6 million dead jews for a start.

In which case you could argue that he was only following Deuteronomy 13:7-11, if he was indeed a Christian.

Hitler's hatred for the Jews started as a boy. It was driven into his head that Jews are evil, the same way that it was - and still is in many cases - driven into American generations that African Americans are horrible. From my readings Hitler was a Christian, right up to his dying days; and this can be found in letters composed by Hitler to friends and other heads of the military and of the state of Germany. Christian or Atheist, the guy was mad.

Atheist or Christian, he did some of the worst things in human history. Many Christians have done horrible things in the name of God, and some have done horrible things saying that God will forgive them. Many Atheists have done terrible things also.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:57 am

Many Christians have done horrible things in the name of God, and some have done horrible things saying that God will forgive them. Many Atheists have done terrible things also.

Agreed. Which was my point in the beginning. The dumbest quote ever is "more wars are caused by religion than anything else." FALSE

Most wars are a fight over resources or borders. Religious affiliations are often used to win the support of the peasants. Aside from the Crusades, which historically speaking were merely an uprising against the Muslim crusades which preceded them, Christians have typically been the victims of religious oppression, not the opressors

Hatred is a result of a lack of knowledge. For a Christian to hate Jews and attempt to justify it biblically is a clear lack of knowledge. Jesus was Jewish. The 12 apostles were Jewish. 99% of the first leaders of the movement were Jewish.

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:19 pm

bassjones wrote:
Many Christians have done horrible things in the name of God, and some have done horrible things saying that God will forgive them. Many Atheists have done terrible things also.
Most wars are a fight over resources or borders. Religious affiliations are often used to win the support of the peasants. Aside from the Crusades, which historically speaking were merely an uprising against the Muslim crusades which preceded them, Christians have typically been the victims of religious oppression, not the opressors

Hatred is a result of a lack of knowledge. For a Christian to hate Jews and attempt to justify it biblically is a clear lack of knowledge. Jesus was Jewish. The 12 apostles were Jewish. 99% of the first leaders of the movement were Jewish.

Well, through out history: the ancient pagans being slaughtered as Christianity just began to take hold, there were the pre-Crusades missions which killed tens of thousands, then of course the crusades which killed possibly millions, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch trials, other heretics through out Europe, our own original settlers slaughtering Native Americans (not always in the name of God, but many were), Catholic supported extermination camps during WWII...I don't know so much about how much they have been oppressed or murdered, but I do knot that they have done more than their fair share. What specific events are you speaking of when you're saying they have been more oppressed?

As far as wars being the results of borders, a lot of borders are created because of beliefs. And therefore, the war would be a result of beliefs.

I do agree though that hatred is a lack of knowledge or misinterpretation. Many Muslims have misinterpreted their own Koran which has led them to kill a large number of innocent people.