Interesting argument on warming

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:09 pm

Oliver's Army wrote:Is it warm in here?

My taint is sweaty

You with Ando?

Bjart Sod · Post by **Bjart Sod** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:20 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote: BTW, how accurate were those thermometers back in 1876 in "Bumblef*ck, Oklahoma"?

Popular complaint. I can't explain it, but if you read the blogs from climatologists (like realclimate.org), they occasionally attempt to explain how that's controlled for. I took a few years of statistics, and even I get lost in that math.

Most of the scientific arguments against CO2-global-temperature link are based on 15-20 year old evidence like the solar-activity-temperature link, which the original authors have now dismissed based on the last 10 years of data. But you still see the idea cited by people against taking action. (See the Great Global Warming Swindle.)

I have to agree with the video in the original post. We know we're capable of screwing up the environment (have you been outside in the last 100 years?) and we have no reason not to become more-green friendly in the CO2 department except artificial and arbitrary stoppages like "cost". We hear that going green would cost too much money or that the technology isn't there yet, but at the same time our government subsidizes the coal research industry with three times the amount of money as it gives to solar research. Why should we fund a research into a resource with dwindling supply? That doesn't even make economic sense. (Would you invest in a company that researches magnetic head cleaners for tape decks?)

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:24 pm

Bjart Sod wrote:We hear that going green would cost too much money or that the technology isn't there yet, but at the same time our government subsidizes the coal research industry with three times the amount of money as it gives to solar research. Why should we fund a research into a resource with dwindling supply? That doesn't even make economic sense. (Would you invest in a company that researches magnetic head cleaners for tape decks?)

That's why I believe having government pay for anything other than national defense is a bad idea... it's inherently bloated, inherently slow, inherently incapable of adapting quickly to change. Remember, these are the people who handled the Katrina response, handle current medicare and medicaid, handle VA health care (Walter Reed), have managed to put over 1500 earmarks in a new spending bill, etc...

Now, explain why we want government health care again? Or why people seem to be happy to entrust them with all sorts of tasks we used to handle ourselves?

deek · Post by **deek** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:16 pm

bassjones wrote:Now, explain why we want government health care again? Or why people seem to be happy to entrust them with all sorts of tasks we used to handle ourselves?

I don't! Give me my money that I earn and let me invest in my own retirement and fund my own healthcare, please.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:34 pm

deek wrote:
bassjones wrote:Now, explain why we want government health care again? Or why people seem to be happy to entrust them with all sorts of tasks we used to handle ourselves?
I don't! Give me my money that I earn and let me invest in my own retirement and fund my own healthcare, please.

If I had invested 50% of the money I've dumped into social security in the last 20 years, I'd be a wealthy man right now. Don't even get me started on this scare the old people bullsh*t tactic the left used to defeat privatization of PART of social security... UGH! People really are stupid.

Bjart Sod · Post by **Bjart Sod** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:12 pm

The bloatedness and slowness might be more a fault of the level corporate interests versus individual persons financially contribute to campaigns and actively watch the end results of those contributions. The government is incredibly quick in responding to the hands that feed it. I don't get the impression from reading Le Monde that the French government is either overly bloated or slow, at least compared to the US. (The French certainly complain about their government as much as we do, but the point is: they do something once they're done complaining.)

How many citizens and firefighters think things would be better if we privatized fire departments? The problem isn't using communal coffers, it's design and oversight.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:31 pm

Why NOT privatize fire protection?

It would still be in the fire company's best interest to prevent fires and save lives/ properties in the most efficient way possible. You'd have 2-3 fire services competing to do that for the best price. The money that the city now extracts from you would go to that bill, and it might be lower.

Bjart Sod · Post by **Bjart Sod** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:49 pm

Competition doesn't need to happen in the economic marketplace. Why not experiment with various methods of management and logistics across the state and begin implementing the best practices everywhere as they're proven effective? (If that isn't already what's happening.)

We'd decrease the cost (oh what an arbitrary concept!) and not put debt-ridden families into further debt simply because neighborhood kids were playing with fireworks unsupervised.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:10 am

Bjart Sod wrote:Competition doesn't need to happen in the economic marketplace.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! You Funny!!

What do you do exactly? Have you ever had a real job?

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:48 am

Bjart Sod wrote:Competition doesn't need to happen in the economic marketplace. Why not experiment with various methods of management and logistics across the state and begin implementing the best practices everywhere as they're proven effective? (If that isn't already what's happening.)

Here's the problem. Large bureaucracies are only good at two things.

- Delivering lots of something
- Keeping themselves afloat

They also tend to be full of corruption (see China for an example). For some of the brighter examples of bureaucracies, here's just a smattering of stories I found in the last 20 seconds.

Convicted Toronto Police Officer Still Collecting Salary
The Internet in Kazakhstan: welcome to the land of $3,355 per month DSL

Also, "Best Practices" change about every four to six years. In a system where you have the two issues I listed above, innovation dies.

Bjart Sod wrote:We'd decrease the cost (oh what an arbitrary concept!) and not put debt-ridden families into further debt simply because neighborhood kids were playing with fireworks unsupervised.

Actually, the costs of products have gone down pretty well as compared with inflation. yes, people that are making minimum wage are getting it in the shorts, but it is pretty easy to get a non-minimum wage job these days, so you have to ask them what the heck is going on....

There are a number of books I could recommend, but honestly, would it make a difference?

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:52 am

Really! When gubbamint pays people / companies, whether they deliver excellence/ efficiency or not (or deliver ANYTHING in some cases,) guess what they start getting for their money?

A big part of the reason health care is so expensive is because gubbamint pays some peoples' medical bills and doesn't pay other peoples'. And now people want to turn health care over to the same people that run the license branches.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:53 am

=^-..-^= wrote: A big part of the reason health care is so expensive is because gubbamint pays some peoples' medical bills and doesn't pay other peoples'. And now people want to turn health care over to the same people that run the license branches.

Yes, they pay poor peoples medical bills who go through the whole system and fill out all the paper work, people who don't have anything better to do than get money from the government. I Don't know about you, but I don't have time to sit all day in the Social Security office, because I have a job.

They don't pay for peoples bills who don't have insurance or have crappy insurance. We need to do away with all this hand out sh*t and make some people actually work.

And yes, I understand some people do legitimately need some assistance, and are honest about it, but the majority is not and thats why we have a expensive sh*tty health care system.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:09 am

A big reason why healthcare/schools/government is so damn expensive is the "use it or lose it" budget policies.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:04 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:A big reason why healthcare/schools/government is so damn expensive is the "use it or lose it" budget policies.

Bingo!!

Bjart Sod · Post by **Bjart Sod** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:04 pm

sevesd93 wrote:What do you do exactly? Have you ever had a real job?

I work in academics now and probably will for the rest of my life. I spent several years in and around the Fort working in factories and a year doing customer service for a local importer. From my own anecdotal experience, I know I have more faith in the "marketplace" of ideas in an academic setting than the marketplace out in the fabled private sector. Universities are often - though not always - a lot easier on the conscience to work for as they have self-regulated systems that allow even the folk on the very bottom of the totem pole to influence policy. Bureaucracy doesn't need to be a stick in the mud, not if its designed well.

I'm not even going to respond to the rest as it's all wishful thinking without the right data to back it up. Believe what you want. I just happen to believe that we can design a better society if we stop building pyramids for the top 1% and actually try to help ourselves for a change.