Peace - At Any Cost

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:30 am

it seems as though you are stereotyping way too much with Islam. Not all Muslims are the extreme idiots, as you well know, so I don't think it will be that fantastic of a problem in Europe (especially with France's ridiculous immigration laws). So what if England has a growing Muslim community, most of those people are probably immigrating there to get away from the turmoil and find work and live peacefully....with some exceptions, its not a Utopia but I don't see it getting that bad. Time will tell.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:05 pm

it seems as though you are stereotyping way too much with Islam. Not all Muslims are the extreme idiots, as you well know, so I don't think it will be that fantastic of a problem in Europe (especially with France's ridiculous immigration laws). So what if England has a growing Muslim community, most of those people are probably immigrating there to get away from the turmoil and find work and live peacefully....with some exceptions, its not a Utopia but I don't see it getting that bad. Time will tell.

Oh puullease....

I'm not an expert on Islam. And you are right, most Muslims in America just want to fit in with their surrounding culture. But I'm not talking about America at this point...

Saudi Arabia (thanks to the world's largest oil supply) is exporting its view of Islam into the world. Islamic schools are popping up all over the world, teaching a radicalized view of Islam. These school are well funded, and teach only one thing. The Koran. The analogy you could look at would be school int he United States that teach radical Christianity (along the lines of Jesus Camp...now imagine a "Jesus Camp" at every major city in Europe...and all throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan, Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc, etc, etc....)

I don't have a problem with Islam, it is a religion in many cases very similar to Christianity (sorry bassjones...), but very different in it's approach to salvation. And it's that approach which is backwards to almost every civilization in the world. Yes, its true. The radicalized, fundamental form of Islam being taught to the youth in these countries pushes three major tenets.

There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is his messenger.
Submission to Allah.
Death to those who would insult or subject those serving Allah.

Does this not worry you? Do you not believe these schools exist?

Islam does not worry me. Radicalized, fundamental Islam hell bent on worldwide domination scares the crap out of me...

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:16 pm

DELETED

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:30 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:
I'm not an expert on Islam. And you are right, most Muslims in America just want to fit in with their surrounding culture. But I'm not talking about America at this point...

I know, you were speaking of Europe mostly, and I disagreed with you on those points.

Saudi Arabia (thanks to the world's largest oil supply) is exporting its view of Islam into the world. Islamic schools are popping up all over the world, teaching a radicalized view of Islam. These school are well funded, and teach only one thing. The Koran. The analogy you could look at would be school int he United States that teach radical Christianity (along the lines of Jesus Camp...now imagine a "Jesus Camp" at every major city in Europe...and all throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan, Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc, etc, etc....)

Dude, there's easily a "Jesus Camp" in every city in the US, at least one church in a town with a Wal-mart is fundamental/scary. I don't doubt the existance of these schools you speak of, not at all.

I don't have a problem with Islam, it is a religion in many cases very similar to Christianity (sorry bassjones...), but very different in it's approach to salvation. And it's that approach which is backwards to almost every civilization in the world. Yes, its true. The radicalized, fundamental form of Islam being taught to the youth in these countries pushes three major tenets.

There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is his messenger.
Submission to Allah.
Death to those who would insult or subject those serving Allah.

I got one too:

Jazz is the teacher.
Funk is the preacher.

Does this not worry you? Do you not believe these schools exist?

Islam does not worry me. Radicalized, fundamental Islam hell bent on worldwide domination scares the crap out of me...

It worries me to a point, but then again radicalized, fundamental Christians hellbent on world domination scare the crap out of me more because I live amongst more of them than I do Muslims.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:33 pm

christians have killed more people than muslims.

And asteroids have killed more dinosaurs than people....

The past is just that, the past. It's something to LEARN from, not something to continue reliving over and over.

Shall we bring up the fact that Jews were kicked out of every single Arab country over the past 100 years? Or the Christians in Palestine/Israel back in 1300AD (which was the reason why the Crusades happened...). Or the Moors in 1000 AD in Spain (which is the "tragedy of Andalusia" BinLaden keeps bitching about). Hell, lets just go back to Egypt enslaving the Jews about three thousand years ago....

I like to know where you got your numbers...and who exactly is keeping score.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:42 pm

It worries me to a point, but then again radicalized, fundamental Christians hellbent on world domination scare the crap out of me more because I live amongst more of them than I do Muslims.

Here's the difference....

Radicalized, psychotic Christians are scorned by the vast majority of Christian churches in the US. Think David Koresh and Warren Jeffs.

Radicalized, psychotic Muslims are not scorned, but just "misunderstood" by the vast number of us idiotic dhimmis in the world.

The important word in this entire debate is "but".

Almost every Muslim I have spoken with about 9/11, Palenstine, etc, etc has brought up that word.

"Oh what they did on 9/11 is horrible...but the Palestinians are living this tragedy everyday".

If 19 psychotic christians walked into four major mosques during Friday service and murdered almost 3000 muslims, what do you think the backlash would be? Do you think Christians would be going...

"Oh what those 19 psychotic christians did is horrible....but the real tragedy is...."

No, that "but" statement only would only come from fellow psychotic christians. The vast majority would come out in droves in condemn those idiots who carried out the attacks. And they would help ensure something like that would never happen again. That is NOT happening in Islam.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:56 pm

Arkface wrote:yeah i'll go ahead and repost it even though it was deleted:

christians have killed more people than muslims.

Support that please! In fact, more Christians have been killed for their beliefs than any other religious movement in the history of man. The largest portion of that has been over the past 100 years.

Also, Atheists and Animists have killed more people than Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians put together. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, the Roman Emperors before Constantine, etc.... all atheists and all attempted to wipe out all religions in their various empires.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:03 pm

One more thing....what would happen in this case?

A man shows up at an abortion protest with a sign calling for the beheading of all abortion doctors and those who help perform abortions. What do you think the people protesting at the abortion clinic will do?

a). embrace the new chant
b). ignore the protestor, saying he is misunderstood to those who question his message.
c). condemn the person and actively try to push themselves away from the "psychotic Christian"

The answer in almost all these cases is "C". For further proof see what help Fred Phelps and Eric Rudoph got from the general populace.

Now look at this...

"C" did not happen during this protest in London several months ago....the correct answer for this image is "B" and in some cases "A".

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:27 pm

Apparently, "God Hates F.a.g.s." is also a popular sign, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

The dark, imminent rise of Islam is about as scary to me as the boogeyman.

I'm more afraid of this crazy 'Nam vet that stalks through my neighborhood, that dude scares me because he's like an animal, if you shoo him he freaks out and runs away.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:40 pm

I'm more afraid of this crazy 'Nam vet that stalks through my neighborhood, that dude scares me because he's like an animal, if you shoo him he freaks out and runs away.

That's short term thinking, an immediate threat. I do stay up worrying about my daughter when she is out, just like most parents.

I'm talking about "long term" concern. I don't stay awake at night about radical Islam, but I do pay attention to what is happening in the world and form my opinions around those reports and what I figure out what is really happening.

And God Hates F#gs is NOT a popular sign outside the Westboro Baptist Church. If you really think it is, then I think you need to go ask some regular Christians what they really think.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:50 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:And God Hates F#gs is NOT a popular sign outside the Westboro Baptist Church. If you really think it is, then I think you need to go ask some regular Christians what they really think.

Dude, I grew-up in the wors, closed knit, christian community, trust me. God loved them, but he sure hated dem f*ggots, by golly.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:27 pm

Dude, I grew-up in the wors, closed knit, christian community, trust me. God loved them, but he sure hated dem f*ggots, by golly.

And when was that? 1980's? Hell, Eddie Murphy was telling gay jokes up until the late 1980's. And I think today, people are much more tolerant of gay people than when they were when I was growing up.

I grew up in an Arab, Greek, Hungarian, Polish, Serbian, and pretty much everything else neighborhood in south suburbs of Chicago. My eighth grade class would be the role model for integration...scary thing is we still all talk to each other on a semi-regular basis.

BTW, the damn moderating software put in the word "queer"....what's wrong with the word "G A Y"?

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:23 pm

Mid to Late 90's when I was in Middle and High school. About 35 miles south of the Fortress.

I wish I would have grown-up where you did, then I might not have been called spic and N*gger all the time. (I'm f*ckin' 1/8 Portugeuse, for Geebus' sake!)

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:50 pm

90% of the Christians I know despise that kind of attitude and behavior. Are you certain those people are Christians? Because if they are, they're going to have a lot to answer for. Sounds more like backwards thinking redneck scum than Christianity to me.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:33 pm

bassjones wrote:90% of the Christians I know despise that kind of attitude and behavior. Are you certain those people are Christians? Because if they are, they're going to have a lot to answer for. Sounds more like backwards thinking redneck scum than Christianity to me.

Yeah, a lot of Apostolics, tons of 'em. It was (still is) the kind of community that if you weren't all about Jesus, they wouldn't acknowledge your existance.

And about half my graduating class went to Anderson University.