Don't let the door hit you in the backside...

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:08 pm

Those who cannot afford to be heard in our own country.

And who, pray tell, are those people?

Which citizens should we listen to?

According to some people on this board, whichever ones don't require us to get off our couches....

Of course, we won't, as the Saudi royal family has so many ties to the Bush family I'm surprised they haven't just betrothed a twin to them.

So that's the reason why we pulled our main military base out of Riyahd and moved it to Bahrain during Bush's tenure? Thanks for clearing that up....

FACT - 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian nationals. If we're truly fighting terrorists, why are we avoiding Saudi Arabia? Oil interests and war profiteering can be such a chore sometimes.

You realize that we get more oil from Canada and Mexico than Saudi Arabia, right? In fact, Saudi production is down compared to the rest of the world.

Oh, you want proof? Here it is. Of course, you will probably claim the data is part of some grand conspiracy against the American People involving the Illuminati, the Trifecta Council, and Donnie and Marie Osmond.

Sankofa · Post by **Sankofa** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:41 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:
Those who cannot afford to be heard in our own country.
And who, pray tell, are those people?

Anyone not connected to the multinationals who keep lobbyists rich.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:50 am

Anyone not connected to the multinationals who keep lobbyists rich.

Who are those people? I am not a multinational person, I work for a multinational company, but that's only because our customers demand it.

So what's your beef with multinational corporations?

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:51 am

I smell the"Haliburton" card about to be played.

Sankofa · Post by **Sankofa** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:54 am

WBOB wrote:I smell the"Haliburton" card about to be played.

Not at all, but a lot of bills get passed that just happen to be in the best interests of major business. Said major businesses who are most interested in their quarterly reports and maximizing their profit margins by shipping jobs overseas.

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:49 am

What exactly is wrong with making money?

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:02 am

Sankofa wrote:
WBOB wrote:I smell the"Haliburton" card about to be played.
Not at all, but a lot of bills get passed that just happen to be in the best interests of major business. Said major businesses who are most interested in their quarterly reports and maximizing their profit margins by shipping jobs overseas.

Businesses have to be concerned about maximizing their profit margin, or they wont be in business anymore. You say they do this by shipping jobs over seas? Good for them, and they should keep doing it. We have people in America doing jobs that can be performed by monkeys for 20, 30, 40 bucks an hour. WTF!?! How do you expect a company to pay those kind of wages and stay in business?

I am not in anyway saying a person shouldn't make a decent wage. I am saying people should be paid what they are worth, and maybe we could keep a lot of these jobs in the U.S. Because it isn't any cheaper to move a job overseas if is costs more to have the product shipped back.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:18 am

sevesd93 wrote:
Sankofa wrote:
WBOB wrote:I smell the"Haliburton" card about to be played.
We have people in America doing jobs that can be performed by monkeys for 20, 30, 40 bucks an hour.

Hey! Where can I get one a 'dem monkey jobs?

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bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:18 am

That's the one thing that has allowed the US to become as successful as it has. No incredibly stupid labor laws that prevent layoffs (like in India, Russia, etc).

People seem to think that once you get laidoff, these people never work again. While they might not work in the industry they have worked in for years, our economy is creating more than enough high-paying jobs that easily fill the void. It's just up to that person to decide what they want to do.

When high-tech finally gets outsourced/automated, you can bet I'll be looking for a different job in a different industry.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:41 am

Yeah, outsourcing jobs can be a double-edged sword.

Many companies that ship manufacturing jobs overseas end up HIRING more people in the US to handle the front-office part of the company. Yes, most of the laid-off people do not just sit in one place and starve to death; they get other jobs. (Unless you were in Flint, MI.)

The Libertarian in me says 'yep, that's gonna' happen'. You can't stop the invisible hand of the free market. Eventually, the entire world will have comparable wages/benefits as they compete for the same jobs.'

The only problem I see is a bigger picture one: Manufacturing CREATES VALUE out of raw materials that worth next to nothing in their natural state. If a country is not creating wealth from manufacturing value, the service sector only has a limited life. Everybody delivering pizzas to everyone else does not create wealth; it just redistributes it, usually into fewer and fewer hands.

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bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:15 pm

The only problem I see is a bigger picture one: Manufacturing CREATES VALUE out of raw materials that worth next to nothing in their natural state. If a country is not creating wealth from manufacturing value, the service sector only has a limited life. Everybody delivering pizzas to everyone else does not create wealth; it just redistributes it, usually into fewer and fewer hands.

Manufacturing creates perceived value, because you have something tangible to see as a finished product. But that value diminishes with a drop in consumer demand. If anything, services do not rely on a supply chain but on an economic chain where consumers exist to demand services. If the supply chain disappears, the product is not made. If the consumer disappears, the service is not generated. Either way, both depend on consumer value.

The reason we are moving into a "service-based" industry is because of the incredible competitiveness in the western world. Increases in productivity and specialization have pushed critical industries such as food and clothing production to the point where people have to look outside those avenues to make a living. This means that new industries are created where consumers demand them. If the demand is not there, these businesses die and others cannibalize their resources to continue.

bwohlgemuth · Post by **bwohlgemuth** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:38 pm

BTW, how the hell did we get from Rumsfeld resigning to this?

/rhetorical question
//I'd still buy Rumsfeld a beer

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:40 pm

Sooo,,,,,,

Bwolgemuth, Rumsfeld, and DeVito walk into a bar. . . . .