Holy crap...this is HORRIBLE! (read at own risk)

Non-music discussion. Discuss things that are on your mind or things that don't have anything to do with music. Lets try to keep it clean people, there are little children present.

Moderators: MrSpall, bassjones, sevesd93, zenmandan

bassjones
Staff Member
Staff Member
Posts: 4270
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 1:36 pm
Contact:

Post by bassjones »

subgenius88 wrote:
bassjones wrote:
what about people who torture or kill other people???? I swear some of us get more upset about people doing this to dogs than people.
Like how conservatives don't mind if the US tortures 'enemy combatants'?
DEVITO
"brad!
...your tunes and your playing sound really great... all the best to you and god bless-
adam nitti" www.myspace.com/adamnittimusic

www.bradjonesbass.com
http://groups.myspace.com/northeastindianabassplayers
www.myspace.com/bassjones
www.myspace.com/whitehotnoise
www.esession.com/bradjones - hire me for your session from anywhere in the world.
subgenius88
Regular
Regular
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:38 pm

Post by subgenius88 »

bassjones wrote:
DEVITO
#-o
I back up your claim with a real world example and you give me the DEVITO treatment?
echosauce1
SuperStar
SuperStar
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:31 am

Post by echosauce1 »

bassjones wrote

" what about people who torture or kill other people???? I swear some of us get more upset about people doing this to dogs than people."

I see what your saying but I'm guilty as charged. You don't f**k with somebody's dog. Never. I have been more protective in my life over my dog than I have of most people I know. I miss my dog more than actual people I have known that have died.

Maybe it's sick to you but oh well. In my experience dogs I have owned were more loyal to me than 99% of the people I have met so maybe that's where it comes from, man's best friend and all.

Actually, I think it's the fact that once a dog chooses it's "master" it will do anything and everything to protect them when it feels they are being threatened. Most people won't do that. I guess I see it as a two way street.
=^-..-^=
FEED ME!
FEED ME!
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:22 am
Location: Rockin' the CatBox

Post by =^-..-^= »

echosauce1 wrote:
Actually, I think it's the fact that once a dog chooses it's "master" it will do anything and everything to protect them when it feels they are being threatened. Most people won't do that. .
It's classical conditioning, more than loyalty or love. Dogs are merely loyal to and defending of their food/petting source. Humans aren't as loyal because we have more forebrain.
"Yesterday Mr. Hall wrote that the printer's proof-reader was improving my punctuation for me, & I telegraphed orders to have him shot without giving him time to pray." -Mark Twain

"There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist."
Ayn Rand

". . .and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw."
echosauce1
SuperStar
SuperStar
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:31 am

Post by echosauce1 »

I think an arguement can be made that loyalty and love between humans is classical conditioning as well. Person X gives person Y what they need, physically, emotionally, whatever. In turn, person Y feels a need to reward person X with loyalty and or love in order to sustain the incoming fulfillment of their desires. Think about the people in your life you are closest to. Are there family members that are closer than others? Do you have a favorite uncle or a friend you hold higher than the others? Why have you chosen to be loyal to them as opposed to some random person off the street?

I know that sounds cynical but when you break it down, why do we feel the need to do good things for others? Is it because it provides us with something we need as well? Of course it does. The needs may be different or more complex than a dog's to some extent, but the overall reason for loyal behavior is not.

This probably does deserve a Devito though, or at least another thread.
=^-..-^=
FEED ME!
FEED ME!
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:22 am
Location: Rockin' the CatBox

Post by =^-..-^= »

Interesting point. Perhaps many cases of love are merely seeking self-reward.

Where we would differ from the dog is that we are willing to SACRIFICE our own well-being, happiness, or even life, even for those who are often not lovable. I am not sure if a dog consciously makes those choices.
"Yesterday Mr. Hall wrote that the printer's proof-reader was improving my punctuation for me, & I telegraphed orders to have him shot without giving him time to pray." -Mark Twain

"There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist."
Ayn Rand

". . .and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw."
echosauce1
SuperStar
SuperStar
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:31 am

Post by echosauce1 »

I had a friend I grew up with whose dad was on the K-9 force. I learned a LOT about loyalty between a dog and his master from that. He had a retired german shepard and his new "pup" who was in active duty.

I recall a time when he came home, opened the door from his "cop car" and i reached in to pet the dog I knew so well. My hand was almost taken off. His dad came out and said "sorry, he's still on the clock.". He then gave the dog a command and the bastard leaped out of the car at me. I was scared as sh*t. Here is a dog I know so well and I thought he was gonna tear my fingers off. After he was "off duty" he literally tackeled me, licked my face off, and we were best friends for the night.

He was trained to protect his master at any cost. When the command was given he was one of the coolest dogs I have ever met in my life because his master told him I was a "friend". Maybe it's just the theory of command but I think a dog knows who it can trust and not.

On a side and relative note, a dog is a great judge of character in a person. I still remember people my old pup either accepted or growled at. She was 99% on target.
Krieves
RockStar
RockStar
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:26 pm

Post by Krieves »

I've always had a dog or two. Maybe I'm just sentimental, but I think dog's abilty to feel friendship and loyalty gos beyond conditioned responses. It's much deeper than that. I don't think they feel love compariable to the way we feel it, but it's more than just something instinctive.
=^-..-^=
FEED ME!
FEED ME!
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:22 am
Location: Rockin' the CatBox

Post by =^-..-^= »

I'm more familiar with cat behavior then dogs, and while I've seen cats imprint on one human that they despise the least, most of their behavior seems to be stimulus/response. I wouldn't equate imprinting with love or loyalty.


While our pug seems to be fairly intelligent, I haven't observed much from him that goes beyond stimulus/response, either. I could be wrong.
"Yesterday Mr. Hall wrote that the printer's proof-reader was improving my punctuation for me, & I telegraphed orders to have him shot without giving him time to pray." -Mark Twain

"There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist."
Ayn Rand

". . .and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw."
GoDownProductions
Regular
Regular
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:04 pm
Contact:

Post by GoDownProductions »

bassjones wrote: what about people who torture or kill other people???? I swear some of us get more upset about people doing this to dogs than people.
I would rather see a person tortured than a dog. Dogs are totally innocent. Can't quite say that about people. Just my twisted 2 cents.
=^-..-^=
FEED ME!
FEED ME!
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:22 am
Location: Rockin' the CatBox

Post by =^-..-^= »

"Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in."
- Mark Twain

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
- Mark Twain
"Yesterday Mr. Hall wrote that the printer's proof-reader was improving my punctuation for me, & I telegraphed orders to have him shot without giving him time to pray." -Mark Twain

"There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist."
Ayn Rand

". . .and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw."
Krieves
RockStar
RockStar
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:26 pm

Post by Krieves »

There's an old saying that goes something like: "Live your life to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are".
PMS Azrael
I Been Around
I Been Around
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:36 am
Location: xxx
Contact:

Post by PMS Azrael »

OMG that's so horrible! I can't imagine what I'd do if that happened to my dog. We've had ours since I was in 2nd grade and now I'm a junior in high school, so he's been a major part of my growing up. That's so awful. :cry:
You know when you've found it because you feel it when they take it away.

Need a singer/songwriter?
Jeff
Regular
Regular
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:42 pm

Post by Jeff »

..
Last edited by Jeff on Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Grindspine
RockStar
RockStar
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:43 pm

Post by Grindspine »

Okay, let's take the torture animals vs. people out of this.
Let's take any political & religious stances out of this.
Let's even take the psych & conditioning aspect out of this.

I have pets. I treat them as companions. Losing a pet sucks (I lost two pets this month that I've had for several years each).

Whether it be human or animal at the receiving end, those who diliberately inflict pain and suffering on another (in the cited case, the dog itself or the owner of the dog) should be severely punished up to the maximum extent of the law (which is still too lenient).
Post Reply