Kramer craps on his career.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:16 am

The press should/and will be all over this for a long time.
They're still out there reminding us of the Mel Gibson thing.

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:40 am

i dont think it is worth the press. it was a wrong and hateful remark that shouldnt be plastered everywhere, all it does is cause outrage.

Outrage causes hate, Hate is what caused this in the first place.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:43 am

kimaliz wrote:Of course the rasict remarks ("You cracker ass mother f-cker") of the heckler will go un noticed.

Of course it will.

A cracker is a baked good.

N.i.g.g.e.r. is a word that has been used for over 400 years as a symbol of hatred and evil.

Do the math.

talcalm x · Post by **talcalm x** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:52 am

Massage...Bored wrote:I will never enjoy nor watch Seinfeld ever again, and that's a shame because I used to love it.

I seriously hope people see this news and decide not to buy Seinfeld Season 7 because of it.

And dont listen to Miles Davis or Richard Wagner either.

Of course the rasict remarks ("You cracker ass mother f-cker") of the heckler will go un noticed.

That remark doesn't carry the historical impact of "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass."

Outrage causes hate, Hate is what caused this in the first place.

No it's not. I would be pretty surprised if Kramer really hated the group of people he said that too. Stereotypes and the salience of them aren't always based in hate. Besides, getting mad because you are insulted isn't hate. And the hate of the victim is more justified than the hate of the aggressor.

The worst part of this is how renowned Richards is for being a reader. And so many people think that education will get rid of racism/stereotypes/etc.

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:54 am

Massage...Bored wrote:
kimaliz wrote:Of course the rasict remarks ("You cracker ass mother f-cker") of the heckler will go un noticed.
Of course it will.

A cracker is a baked good.

N.i.g.g.e.r. is a word that has been used for over 400 years as a symbol of hatred and evil.

Do the math.

so then in 400 years people can get upset about being called a cracker? a racist remak is a racist remark.

if he didnt drop the N bomb, and said other derragatory remarks that could be said about the african american community, he will still be in trouble.

both at fault.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:55 am

talcalm x wrote: And dont listen to Miles Davis......either.

Oh, I have my problems with that guy and they way he decided to go out.

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:57 am

talcalm x wrote: And the hate of the victim is more justified than the hate of the aggressor.

both were victims. the heckler had no right to interupt his perfomance, and richards had no right to verbally abuse him.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:58 am

kimaliz wrote: so then in 400 years people can get upset about being called a cracker? a racist remak is a racist remark.

Dammit Al, have your people been oppressed by the blacks for well over 400 years?

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:00 pm

Richards had every right to re-act. But he also had the option to do it perfessionally.

Heckler had evey right to respect richards act. He failed.

Does that send a message to everyone that it is okay to interupt people with derragatory remarks?

sharkmansix · Post by **sharkmansix** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:07 pm

Richards had every right to re-act. But he also had the option to do it perfessionally.

Heckler had evey right to respect richards act. He failed.

Does that send a message to everyone that it is okay to interupt people with derragatory remarks?

I would say hecklers are more common at commedy shows. IMHO as a commedian you should be ready for a heckler.

They're going to happen.

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:13 pm

kimaliz wrote:Richards had every right to re-act. But he also had the option to do it perfessionally.

And he committed career suicide.

Heckler had evey right to respect richards act. He failed.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that something that comes with the territory of doing stand-up? Aren't you supposed to expect the possible heckler. I would assume so. Not that I condone it, but if you paid to get into a comedy club and the acts they have that night are terrible, they are gonna get heckled. From what I heard, his stand-up was laaaaame and people couldn't believe it and started heckling. It happens, go to Snickers.

Does that send a message to everyone that it is okay to interupt people with derragatory remarks?

It doesn't send any message. It just happened. When did this turn into a Dr. Phil episode?

Al Quandt · Post by **Al Quandt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:12 pm

^ honestly this is my attempt to discuss my view of this nature in a more respectful and tactful way. So that I don't dig the unfortunate hole i dug months ago by speaking without thinking of my wording my text to meet my actual intent.

I agree that in the comedy world this would be expected but it still doesnt make it right.

I have found myself in this situation at local shows, were some of my friends decide to heckle at the band that they don't like. I scould them regarldless of my views of the group. it is an innapropriate venue to discuss your views on a group by publicly embarass them with rude remarks.

I have found myself on the other end too a few times that I can remember (barely

) that I got up and bugged one Matt Sturm in between songs, I said nothing inappropriate but it was rude of my to get up and do what I did. (usually it was trying to plug my shows later on in the week at the same venue).

I learned from that mistake and feel bad that I did it, it made me look like a fool, and bugged the performer.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:50 pm

He was right to be upset and angry about them heckling him. However, there is no excuse EVER for using that kind of language, no matter how angry you are.

Please don't compare anything Miles Davis said to this! Remember that Davis grew up drinking out of "Colored" drinking fountains before you get self-righteous about his anger towards white Americans.

Even Malcolm X, as much as I disagreed with his methods, if you look at what happened to him, you might understand his anger and even hatred for a minute. I much prefered Dr. King's approach, and I think it was proven to be more effective in the long run, but Malcolm's rage was certainly justifiable. If not for King, that rage may well have ended up starting a racial war in this country, but that doesn't mean I don't understand Malcolm's feelings. I'm glad he softened towards the end of his life (which a lot of people don't realize) and even denounced many of his more radical ideas.

At any rate, don't compare what Richards said to anything Davis said. Not even close to comparable. Now, if you want to discuss why Dave Chappel and Chris Rock can get away with some of the things they say (which still don't approach this), that I can agree with...

Massage...Bored · Post by **Massage...Bored** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:01 pm

bassjones wrote: Please don't compare anything Miles Davis said to this!

I was talking about Miles' addictions and his attitude towards everything in the later part of his life. It really puts a bad taste in my mouth.

sharkmansix · Post by **sharkmansix** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:08 pm

Now, if you want to discuss why Dave Chappel and Chris Rock can get away with some of the things they say (which still don't approach this), that I can agree with...

Yeah but his rant wasn't part of a 'bit'. I think when it's presented in that context it allowes for more 'colorful' language.