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National healthcare
I am against it, people should fend for themselves 25%  25%  [ 5 ]
Don’t know 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I am for it, everybody should have access to proper healthcare 75%  75%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 20
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:22 am 
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sharkmansix wrote:
All of a sudden, I've walked into Logan's Run......


man, is that out of DVD? i totally wanna watch it now that you mentioned it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:33 am 
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man, is that out of DVD? i totally wanna watch it now that you mentioned it.


Yeah, reciently too!

Check out:
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:57 pm 
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Fix the tort law, and start encouraging or requiring doctors, hospitals and pharmacies to donate time, care, and medicine, and we can have universal health care without the monster socialist program. Bassjones quote

When CBO applied the methods used in the study of Medicare patients hospitalized for two types of heart disease to a broader set of ailments, it found no evidence that restrictions on tort liability reduce medical spending. Moreover, using a different set of data, CBO found no statistically significant difference in per capita health care spending between states with and without limits on malpractice torts
taken from factcheck.org


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:29 pm 
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insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Have any of you looked at Canada and The UK's healthcare situation? What makes you think trying it here would produce any better results? The UK is currently rationing certain procedures due to a lack of qualified specialists and equipment. If you need kidney dialysis, it is rationed based on your future potential productivity. So, if a 30-yr-old male with diabetes needs dialysis and potentially a kidney transplant, he will receive dialysis. If his 65-yr-old grandfather needs the same procedure, well good luck and here's some morphine to mask the pain.

In Canada, there are 6 - 18 month waiting lists for routine procedures that require nothing more than a same day call to your personal physician here.

Currently, 22% of our nation's population is retirement age (65 or older). in 2006, the first of the Baby Boomers will begin to retire and by 2020, 38% of the population will be retirement age. Basically, that means every person working will be supporting one retired person. When Social Security and Medicare started, it took 10 workers to support 1 retired person. Right now, it's 3-4 people to support 1, and by 2020, we're looking at 1-1. That's without adding in John Kerry's plan, which don't forget merely covers currently uncovered children at a cost of between $600 Billion (his number) and $1.5 Trillion (independent studies of his plan). Add in all the adults, and then try to socialize the whole thing and we're talking upwards of $10 - 15 Trillion. Factor in the fact that government programs have grown at 3x's the rate of inflation over the last 50 years, and we're going to be the Soviet Union of the 1980's by 2030 - just about the time, I'm getting ready to retire.

In several European countries, over 50% of the population will be retirement age by 2010. Many European Socialist states are currently cutting benefits, and we're adding them. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Every experiment with socialism has failed miserably, yet we continue to become more and more of a socialist state. It defies logic.

Maybe one day we'll find out Lady Thatcher was right.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:30 am 
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Quote:
In Canada, there are 6 - 18 month waiting lists for routine procedures that require nothing more than a same day call to your personal physician here.


What's funny is how many people avoid seeing a doctor at all because they know they can't pay for it. Then, after living with the pain, and toughing thorugh it, something gives and that person ends up in the emergency room. Sometimes they live, and owe huge ammounts of money (remember they were avoiding this becasue they couldn't pay for the initial visit/procedure) and sometimes they die and their families sue for huge ammounts of money, causing the doctors to go into debt.

Man our system is messed.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:42 am 
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Exactly, Mr. Sharkman. When you compare UK or Canadian helathcare to the US, you have to remember how many people in our own country have inadequate or no healthcare.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:59 pm 
i'm not up to par on healthcare in america or canada.

how hard is it to become a doctor in canada? how much do they get paid? do people want to become doctors in canada? if not, why?

how much money goes to healthcare in canada. do a lot of people go to the doctor there? if so, for legitimate reasons?


are there incentives to become a doctor in canada? because there really isn't a whole lot of incentives that i know of to become a doctor here, other than childish adolescents who "want to become a doctor or a lawyer" (ie: prestige). because i'm pretty sure any doctor will tell you the money isn't worth it. and it's pretty hard here to become a doctor, which is definitely good.


i'd appreciate someone answering my questions, because i'm an ingorant bastard. (sic)



what i'm basically getting at is: if hospitals and doc offices are max-full in canada, there should be more doctors. hell, the doctors here are pretty effing full and get no sleep as it is.

also, the whole western approach of drugging and cutting is pretty lame. but that's a whole nother issue, EH?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:21 pm 
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Quote:
Exactly, Mr. Sharkman. When you compare UK or Canadian helathcare to the US, you have to remember how many people in our own country have inadequate or no healthcare.


So, we improve healthcare coverage for those relatively few without any and in the process, we ruin the system for those of us who already have coverage?

That seems to be the liberal way. Rather than bring up the poor, we'll bring down the rich. That way we'll all be miserable together.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:02 pm 
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Quote:
So, we improve healthcare coverage for those relatively few without any and in the process, we ruin the system for those of us who already have coverage?

That seems to be the liberal way. Rather than bring up the poor, we'll bring down the rich. That way we'll all be miserable together.


I guess you want the poor to stay poor too? I have to agree, I see healthcare as a human right, and not a convience for the rich.

The best solution i've seen so far is to cut our defense budget, and reevaluate where those funds go.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:08 pm 
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I'll admit that I'm not an expert here. I wish I could back up everything I'm saying with numbers. Some day I will take the time to read up on the subject, but for right now, all I can say is that any healthcare system (like any economic or educational system) that does not provide for 100% of its potential participants is inadequate. I do not have any faith in a purely capitalist system to provide in that way. Even the math on paper doesn't work, because in a finite system, profit requires exploitation.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:41 pm 
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Quote:
I'll admit that I'm not an expert here. I wish I could back up everything I'm saying with numbers. Some day I will take the time to read up on the subject, but for right now, all I can say is that any healthcare system (like any economic or educational system) that does not provide for 100% of its potential participants is inadequate. I do not have any faith in a purely capitalist system to provide in that way. Even the math on paper doesn't work, because in a finite system, profit requires exploitation.


That's an impossible standard. The worst healthcare in the world is in socialist and communist countries.

I know you don't like it, but the profit motive is what drives development, including in healthcare. Do you think Pfizer came up with Viagra out of the goodness of their heart? Yet, millions of men and their female partners are pretty glad they did. Ditto for prosthetic limbs, artificial hearts, lungs, developing artificial pancreas, which will soon be available for diabetes sufferers. If a cure for AIDS is found, it will be found by one of the companies who is desperately hoping for an economic windfall.

Without that motive, we wouldn't have 90% of the vaccines we now have, we wouldn't have most of the procedures we now have, people would still routinely die from TB and Malaria, and I could go on and on. Yet, now that the profit motive has given all of these wonderful advances, many of which are now available to the poor, we want to take that motive away? I agree that every child (person, for that matter) in America should have access to basic life saving healthcare, but should they have access to the best of the best? Without leaving the best of the best for the rich, we won't have new developments. With those developments, today's best of the best will become tomorrows routine and the poor will have access to a better life than they have today.

Even in environmentally friendly technological developments, profit motive rules. The hybrid engine, developing cleaner burning fuels - hydrogen, etc... The most polluted country in the world for a long time was Russia in the 1970's and 1980's, and there was no profit motive. There was also no motive to sustain the environment. If you take away profit, you take away motive for growth and development.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:31 am 
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Quote:
Without leaving the best of the best for the rich, we won't have new developments.


Yeah, and the rich should also have more say then poor Americans, and they should take control of the poor people too...becasue everything depends on the rich staying rich, and the poor staying poor.

Without a poor, deprived lower class, who's going to fight out wars? Certianly not the rich, they just want to make money on the wars.

*jeeze*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:59 pm 
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If you take away profit, you take away motive for growth and development.


That's pure godshit. Growth and development are a part of human nature and existed long before the first overcharged customer. I can contradict that without looking further than myself, but finding historical examples is a bit complicated. When has an industrialized nation ever not been driven by competiton or had to focus its spending because of sanctions or potential military threats? Even as I ask that, I find myself using words like "spending" that are the products of the box that we've been trapped inside since Mesopotamia.

Profit demands exploitation. You cannot create something from nothing in a finite system. If we really want growth and development, we have to break away from the finite system that is the money economy. You cannot "grow" in a system that cannot expand. The "progress" we have made has been to the detriment and exploitation of the rest of the world. The only reason it's continued so long has been through government intervention and spending, and you've seen what that's done to our national debt.

I want a new economy. Where development is not measured in the finite. Where one nation's resources are not pitted against another's. I don't like Smith, I don't like Marx. I don't like the USA, I don't like the USSR. I don't like any model I've seen bofore. I want a democratic economy where all people vote and not just those who amass symbollic pieces of paper.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:03 pm 
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Quote:
want a new economy. Where development is not measured in the finite. Where one nation's resources are not pitted against another's. I don't like Smith, I don't like Marx. I don't like the USA, I don't like the USSR. I don't like any model I've seen bofore. I want a democratic economy where all people vote and not just those who amass symbollic pieces of paper.


Amen, brother!

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 Post subject: Re: National healthcare
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:36 am 
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You can also read some info using https://hivprep.org cause Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis is a treatment approach for an HIV negative person to prevent the acquisition of HIV. To prevent the Hiv diseases you should know more about.


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