The National Debt

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scuzzbagcomics
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The National Debt

Post by scuzzbagcomics »

I think that the issue of the National Debt needs to be discussed and hopefully resolved someday. Here's a good place to talk about it.

I have some nice links here

This one illustrates debt vs income
http://one-simple-idea.com/National_Deb ... e_2005.gif

here's another good graph of the debt and the presidents who were in office

http://web.whittier.edu/academic/math/j ... sdebt1.gif
although the last 3 years of bush aren't on it, you can tell where the trend is going.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ that is a good one. refresh it after ten seconds and our national debt goes up like a hundred thousand dollars!


So here's the problem, the government can lower the national debt by 3 different ways:

1. cut spending.
2. raise taxes.
3. print more money (which would cause inflation)

I don't know whats going to happen, but the sh*t's gonna hit the fan if they dont do something about it.

The federal government has a larger budget than most European economies.

What I fear from the whole national debt crisis is that we're going to go into a massive depression.
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Post by =^-..-^= »

Try a MILLION dollars every ten seconds.

Right now, the national debt is at 60% of our annual GNP; much higher than that, and it crosses the point of no return.

The national debt is a huge reason our currency has been tanking against the Euro and the Pound. As long as the Japanese, Chinese, and Arabs are willing to buy our debt – in the form of bonds, we are delaying the inevitable; but there will come a point where the US is not good for that money.

Yeah, we need to cut spending, big time - not add national health care to the pile. There are a lot of nice things the govt does that we have to say we just can't afford it any more, like farm subsidies.

Raising taxes: Some countries in the 3rd world that have a national debt that is 200% of their GNP- that means their country's ENTIRE annual output could only pay half their debt, have confiscatory tax rates. That means there is no incentive to start new businesses, if 75% of profits are taken away in taxes. That means only further debt. A certain radio host who's a total dipwad does say one good thing: "No country has ever taxed itself into prosperity."
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Post by scuzzbagcomics »

So whats gonna happen?

Recession, then economic depression, then chaos and anarchy?
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Post by =^-..-^= »

I don't want to paint a gloomy picture.

I just think the national debt is probably our biggest crisis right now, and no one is addressing it. NAtional health care will only exacerbate it. Individuals can't spend like that indefinitely, and neither can the US. We need another productive miracle, like the what the microcomputer and the internet did in the 90's.

Yeah, runaway inflation will come first, as our currency is devalued against foreign coinage. Because manufacturing jobs are only 2 in 10, down from 40%, the US is not creating new wealth like it used to, only redistributing it.
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Post by scuzzbagcomics »

Have u heard of the blue dog coalition in the house?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition

They hang a number of the national debt on the outside of their office doors in congress. They put up a new number every day!

Fiscally conservative democrats? I can't believe it!
I just think the national debt is probably our biggest crisis right now, and no one is addressing it. NAtional health care will only exacerbate it.
True. In consideration of our massively growing national debt, I don't see a national health care program taking off in this country. Although, everyone does deserve that. It doesn't look politically probable to me anymore. Not here, not now.

So be careful people. If you don't have insurance, watch your asses. Drive slower. walk carefully. Careful steps!

But honestly "=^-..-^=," there is so much spending that we could cut back on, then we could start lowering the debt, and with the amount of taxes we're already paying we could probably pay for a national healthcare system too!

There's a lot of corruption and redtape that we're losing dollars to.

I think organization is important, but I don't want big government. F those douche bags!
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Post by MrSpall »

See, this is where I start to sound like a damned republicrat. We DO need to lower the debt.

First, we need to scrap any and all notions of a 'national health care program'. It's just not gonna happen. You want health care - earn it. There should be a program to help the elderly and people with disabilities. There will need to be a program for those that are temporarily impoverished. But that program needs to cut off at 6-9 months. After 9 months, if you are a fully functional adult, you should've found a job. If you didn't, your lazy ass recieves no health care assistance. The end.

Second, we need to end big government spending. The fiscal side of the government needs to be run, essentially, as a business. Rather than automatically assigning X amount to a job, and including millions of dollars in overruns, we need to be going out, getting competitive quotes for projects, and sticking to a realistic budget. Right now, the budget for any government project is about 50% overrun. This money goes first to line pockets and second to make up for incompetence in planning. I work for a company that contracts jobs from the government and we always jack the price way, WAY up because we know they'll pay it. If they took a harder line against things like that, it'd help lower their budget dramatically. If I overran costs on all the projects I worked on by 50% or more, I'd be fired in an instant. We need our politicians to start thinking like businessmen.

That's all I've got for now - gotta go to work and screw the government out of more money.
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Post by =^-..-^= »

scuzzbagcomics wrote:
But honestly "=^-..-^=," there is so much spending that we could cut back on, then we could start lowering the debt, and with the amount of taxes we're already paying we could probably pay for a national healthcare system too!

There's a lot of corruption and redtape that we're losing dollars to.

I don't want big government.
Do you realize just how expensive national healthcare would actually be? Health care is so expensive today because the gubbamint pays some peoples' bills and not others. They set their prices to match the guaranteed payer (gubbamint), then bill everybody that price. See the above billing practices.

Now apply all the efficiency and quality you find at a visit to the license branch to your next doctor visit. Do you REALLY want these people handling health care? My visit in 2000 to a 1970's-era emergency room in Canada was a real eye-opener.

Also, watch the world's leading medical research move offshore as bureacracy and liability makes it impossible to operate.

If you don't like big gubbamint, you really don't want to pile a several trillion dollar inefficient, corrupt, bloated bureaucracy like national health care on top of it. You will speed up economic collapse by several years.
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Post by scuzzbagcomics »

Alright so what do you think is going to happen?

Can we fix the national debt? Is it probable that it will really happen?

Is there going to be an economic collapse? And if so, when and how will it begin?
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Re: The National Debt

Post by Aero »

scuzzbagcomics wrote: So here's the problem, the government can lower the national debt by 3 different ways:

1. cut spending.
2. raise taxes.
3. print more money (which would cause inflation)
Cutting spending is the most obvious way to help fix the economy. Printing more money just devalues the dollar and would actually be worse - the last thing we need is more "I owe you's" floating around that aren't backed by anything.
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Post by MrSpall »

scuzzbagcomics wrote:Alright so what do you think is going to happen?

Can we fix the national debt? Is it probable that it will really happen?

Is there going to be an economic collapse? And if so, when and how will it begin?
What do I think is going to happen? I'm guessing another Depression (not quite Great in stature) that kicks this country in the ass and gets the government thinking correctly about spending again.

Can we fix the national debt? With enough diligence and work, maybe. Look at my suggestoins from above. Is it probable that it will really happen? No. The problem is too many people have been babied and cared for by the government for too long. There is a reason that, when we went into Iraq, we didn't resort to rationing and all of the other 'sacrifices' people made in support of WW2. The majority of the populace, after living high on the hog for so long, wouldn't have stood for it. As a country we seem to be unwilling to make sacrifices anymore.

Is there going to be an economic collapse?
Probably. And if so, when and how will it begin? Well, China has been a growing military and economic power for some time now. They're also a communist regime with no love for the U.S. Somehow they never make the list of countries that GWB is thinking about bombing to oblivion next. Know why? It's because they hold a huge amount of our debt in their hands. If they were to come calling for the bills, that would cause our economic collapse. Right now I'm guessing the only reason they haven't is that they don't yet hold military superiority over us. If they ever do, they're gonna want us to pay. It'll result in war. It will not be pretty. This is probably going to end up being the cause of WW3.
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Post by scuzzbagcomics »

u seriously think world war 3 will result from the USA's debt to China? U really think that's going to happen?
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Post by bassjones »

scuzzbagcomics wrote:u seriously think world war 3 will result from the USA's debt to China? U really think that's going to happen?
I think we're going to lose our Country at least in part because of the fact that almost all of our manufacturing takes place in China and countries sympathetic to China.
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