FortWayneMusic.com

Oliver's Army wrote:

rezin wrote:damn.

all you old men took the fun out of this.

awesome.

...

get off my lawn.

no.

rezin wrote:damn.

all you old men took the fun out of this.

awesome.

...

You're welcome.

Silencio wrote:

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:

conley wrote:The nay sayers have simply forgotten Kiss' impact on modern music. .

This naysayer was there, unlike the rest of you kiddos: I played KISS songs in my band back in 1972, and I know what their "impact" or "influence" was.

Which was and is zilch.

Inspiring a 14 year old who eventually becomes a rock star to pick up his first guitar is not "influence," a fact that every local scenester who finally gets their 15 minutes with Emma Downs would do well to remember ("Yeah, uh, my influences are KISS, Taking Back Sunday, Stravinsky, and my mom, even though you can't hear any of them in my playing").

What KISS inspired was the plunking down of bucks at record stores, nothing more. They blazed no trails, did nothing original, didn't even perform their pastiche of cheesy metal posturings very well, and if you had seen them live (I did), you'd know that they couldn't play, either. They were a heavy metal Hannah Montana, and they knew it.

We went for the blood spitting and stayed for the smoking guitar. KISS was conceived and executed as a Saturday morning cartoon, and that is how they are remembered, not as a musical force.

To compare a cynical marketing ploy with a true groundbreaking band like Nirvana is disingenuous. I can understand from the whole Grave Robber thing why you imagine KISS is cool. Yes, they're icons, but not musical ones, and they do not influence anyone... you have to give the real credit for the whole Theatre du Grand-Guignol rock show thing to Alice Cooper.

Let me respond point by point.

1) I'm no young pup. I was there, too. I still have the vinyl I bought in 1976.

2) How the heck did you play Kiss songs in 1972 when their first album came out in 1973? (I think you may have lost your cred right there)

3) Kiss had no musical impact, huh? How about 34 Gold records!

4) Kiss had no inlfuence, huh? First person who comes to mind is Dimbag. Then Scott Ian. Kurt Cobain was another. There's more but these came to mind first.

5) "Inspiring a 14 year old who eventually becomes a rock star to pick up his first guitar is not "influence" - I vehemently disagree. This my friend is certainly an influence. I was greatly influenced by Kiss to start playing music. Period. (Also greatly influenced by Cooper, Bowie, Sweet, Slade, Mott The Hoople, and Black Sabbath)

6) They couldn't play?!? How many Kiss shows did you see? I saw them a ton. They were great every time except one. I even saw them at Dodger stadium in L.A. on Halloween night in '98. They were incredible!

7) Yeah, they did inspire plucking down bucks at record stores. No doubt. That's what happens when people like your albums. duh. How about Led Zeplin? Are they crap because more people plucked down bucks for their albums than Kiss? (Zep has more gold records than any other band according to wikipedia) Success doesn't always mean something is bad. That's an elitist attitude.

Saturday morning cartoon? Perhaps. Heroes? Absolutely. They were heroes to the underdogs. If you don't get why after playing Kiss' songs in 1972 before their album came out in 1973, well, then you never will.

9) What is cynical about marketting? I'd slap a Grave Robber logo on something a fan wanted it on. In the words of Teh Kinks, "Give The People What They Want"!

10) I do give absolute credit to Alice Cooper as I am probably his biggest fan in this town. I have cds by him that He hardly remembers making (Zipper Catches Skin, Special Forces, DaDa). Trying to take a stab at Grave Robber because you don't get Kiss is pretty lame. FYI, Grave Robber is far more Alice Cooper than Kiss.

11) You sound like a pure music snob.

I'm going to go listen to Destroyer now.

Hugs and KISSes!

Steel String Bender wrote:You've got to be sh**ing me! Do you really think this is the only reason anyone cares about Johnny Cash?

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:The only reason anyone cares about Cash is because of the short lived rockabilly "fad" that ran rampant in the late 90's with every shmoe who bought a can of pomade pissing all over Johnny's great songs.

Yes I do and I'll tell you why:

When I was about 5 I discovered Cash. From that time until I was about 30, nobody even mentioned him to me. Ever. I've owned a dj/karaoke company for 15 years and the only people that ever sang Cash songs were 50+ years old at legion halls. That is until the rockabilly thing got it's moment. Suddenly, punk rockers were singing karaoke at O's. I sang a Cash song once around 1994 at karaoke and got laughed at.

No one ever requested Cash songs at a wedding reception until he died.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if I had to guess I'd say you don't remember a time when Cash wasn't cool. After his Rick Rubin produced "comeback" album, he was suddenly popular. I have Cash albums from the year they were released handed down from my parents. Trust me, there was a long drawn out period of time where Johnny Cash was considered to be a joke. I know because I was the butt of many a joke for liking him. (Suddenly Neil Diamond seems to be making his way out of jokedom and becoming "cool". Weird.)

I am in no way, shape, or form dissing Johnny's greatness. What I'm saying is that most people who claim to be fans of Cash only glommed onto him because rockabilly bands doing crappy versions of his songs. (There certainly were exceptions, i.e. Blue Moon Boys) I toured alot during that time and heard more than my fair share of crappy bands trying to play Cash songs, let me tell you.

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:

Silencio wrote:

GRAVE ROBBER wrote: This naysayer was there, unlike the rest of you kiddos: I played KISS songs in my band back in 1972, and I know what their "impact" or "influence" was.

Which was and is zilch.

Inspiring a 14 year old who eventually becomes a rock star to pick up his first guitar is not "influence," a fact that every local scenester who finally gets their 15 minutes with Emma Downs would do well to remember ("Yeah, uh, my influences are KISS, Taking Back Sunday, Stravinsky, and my mom, even though you can't hear any of them in my playing").

What KISS inspired was the plunking down of bucks at record stores, nothing more. They blazed no trails, did nothing original, didn't even perform their pastiche of cheesy metal posturings very well, and if you had seen them live (I did), you'd know that they couldn't play, either. They were a heavy metal Hannah Montana, and they knew it.

We went for the blood spitting and stayed for the smoking guitar. KISS was conceived and executed as a Saturday morning cartoon, and that is how they are remembered, not as a musical force.

To compare a cynical marketing ploy with a true groundbreaking band like Nirvana is disingenuous. I can understand from the whole Grave Robber thing why you imagine KISS is cool. Yes, they're icons, but not musical ones, and they do not influence anyone... you have to give the real credit for the whole Theatre du Grand-Guignol rock show thing to Alice Cooper.

Let me respond point by point.

1) I'm no young pup. I was there, too. I still have the vinyl I bought in 1976.

2) How the heck did you play Kiss songs in 1972 when their first album came out in 1973? (I think you may have lost your cred right there)

3) Kiss had no musical impact, huh? How about 34 Gold records!

4) Kiss had no inlfuence, huh? First person who comes to mind is Dimbag. Then Scott Ian. Kurt Cobain was another. There's more but these came to mind first.

5) "Inspiring a 14 year old who eventually becomes a rock star to pick up his first guitar is not "influence" - I vehemently disagree. This my friend is certainly an influence. I was greatly influenced by Kiss to start playing music. Period. (Also greatly influenced by Cooper, Bowie, Sweet, Slade, Mott The Hoople, and Black Sabbath)

6) They couldn't play?!? How many Kiss shows did you see? I saw them a ton. They were great every time except one. I even saw them at Dodger stadium in L.A. on Halloween night in '98. They were incredible!

7) Yeah, they did inspire plucking down bucks at record stores. No doubt. That's what happens when people like your albums. duh. How about Led Zeplin? Are they crap because more people plucked down bucks for their albums than Kiss? (Zep has more gold records than any other band according to wikipedia) Success doesn't always mean something is bad. That's an elitist attitude.

Saturday morning cartoon? Perhaps. Heroes? Absolutely. They were heroes to the underdogs. If you don't get why after playing Kiss' songs in 1972 before their album came out in 1973, well, then you never will.

9) What is cynical about marketting? I'd slap a Grave Robber logo on something a fan wanted it on. In the words of Teh Kinks, "Give The People What They Want"!

10) I do give absolute credit to Alice Cooper as I am probably his biggest fan in this town. I have cds by him that He hardly remembers making (Zipper Catches Skin, Special Forces, DaDa). Trying to take a stab at Grave Robber because you don't get Kiss is pretty lame. FYI, Grave Robber is far more Alice Cooper than Kiss.

11) You sound like a pure music snob.

I'm going to go listen to Destroyer now.

Hugs and KISSes!

best thing ever said on this board.

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:

Steel String Bender wrote:You've got to be sh**ing me! Do you really think this is the only reason anyone cares about Johnny Cash?

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:The only reason anyone cares about Cash is because of the short lived rockabilly "fad" that ran rampant in the late 90's with every shmoe who bought a can of pomade pissing all over Johnny's great songs.

Yes I do and I'll tell you why:

When I was about 5 I discovered Cash. From that time until I was about 30, nobody even mentioned him to me. Ever. I've owned a dj/karaoke company for 15 years and the only people that ever sang Cash songs were 50+ years old at legion halls. That is until the rockabilly thing got it's moment. Suddenly, punk rockers were singing karaoke at O's. I sang a Cash song once around 1994 at karaoke and got laughed at.

No one ever requested Cash songs at a wedding reception until he died.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if I had to guess I'd say you don't remember a time when Cash wasn't cool. After his Rick Rubin produced "comeback" album, he was suddenly popular. I have Cash albums from the year they were released handed down from my parents. Trust me, there was a long drawn out period of time where Johnny Cash was considered to be a joke. I know because I was the butt of many a joke for liking him. (Suddenly Neil Diamond seems to be making his way out of jokedom and becoming "cool". Weird.)

I am in no way, shape, or form dissing Johnny's greatness. What I'm saying is that most people who claim to be fans of Cash only glommed onto him because rockabilly bands doing crappy versions of his songs. (There certainly were exceptions, i.e. Blue Moon Boys) I toured alot during that time and heard more than my fair share of crappy bands trying to play Cash songs, let me tell you.

I'm glad you're a big fan of Johnny Cash, and claim to have no interest in "dissing" his greatness. I just want to point out that Mr. Cash has many, many, many, many, non-wavering LIFELONG FANS. I'm truly sorry none of them were able to be present during your formative years, or at any of your karaoke or live performance band events.

Oh yes, no one gives a rat's a**, but I'm 47.

Steel String Bender wrote:

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:

Steel String Bender wrote:You've got to be sh**ing me! Do you really think this is the only reason anyone cares about Johnny Cash?

Yes I do and I'll tell you why:

When I was about 5 I discovered Cash. From that time until I was about 30, nobody even mentioned him to me. Ever. I've owned a dj/karaoke company for 15 years and the only people that ever sang Cash songs were 50+ years old at legion halls. That is until the rockabilly thing got it's moment. Suddenly, punk rockers were singing karaoke at O's. I sang a Cash song once around 1994 at karaoke and got laughed at.

No one ever requested Cash songs at a wedding reception until he died.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if I had to guess I'd say you don't remember a time when Cash wasn't cool. After his Rick Rubin produced "comeback" album, he was suddenly popular. I have Cash albums from the year they were released handed down from my parents. Trust me, there was a long drawn out period of time where Johnny Cash was considered to be a joke. I know because I was the butt of many a joke for liking him. (Suddenly Neil Diamond seems to be making his way out of jokedom and becoming "cool". Weird.)

I am in no way, shape, or form dissing Johnny's greatness. What I'm saying is that most people who claim to be fans of Cash only glommed onto him because rockabilly bands doing crappy versions of his songs. (There certainly were exceptions, i.e. Blue Moon Boys) I toured alot during that time and heard more than my fair share of crappy bands trying to play Cash songs, let me tell you.

I'm glad you're a big fan of Johnny Cash, and claim to have no interest in "dissing" his greatness. I just want to point out that Mr. Cash has many, many, many, many, non-wavering LIFELONG FANS. I'm truly sorry none of them were able to be present during your formative years, or at any of your karaoke or live performance band events.

Oh yes, no one gives a rat's a**, but I'm 47.

this dude has quite the mouth on him.

This might be off topic, but I really believe Ace Frehley could beat the sh*t outta Bob Dylan.

conley wrote:This might be off topic, but I really believe Ace Frehley could beat the sh*t outta Bob Dylan.

hell yes he could.

i wish ace frehley would beat the crap out of bob dylan.

Steel String Bender wrote:

GRAVE ROBBER wrote:

Steel String Bender wrote:You've got to be sh**ing me! Do you really think this is the only reason anyone cares about Johnny Cash?

Yes I do and I'll tell you why:

When I was about 5 I discovered Cash. From that time until I was about 30, nobody even mentioned him to me. Ever. I've owned a dj/karaoke company for 15 years and the only people that ever sang Cash songs were 50+ years old at legion halls. That is until the rockabilly thing got it's moment. Suddenly, punk rockers were singing karaoke at O's. I sang a Cash song once around 1994 at karaoke and got laughed at.

No one ever requested Cash songs at a wedding reception until he died.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if I had to guess I'd say you don't remember a time when Cash wasn't cool. After his Rick Rubin produced "comeback" album, he was suddenly popular. I have Cash albums from the year they were released handed down from my parents. Trust me, there was a long drawn out period of time where Johnny Cash was considered to be a joke. I know because I was the butt of many a joke for liking him. (Suddenly Neil Diamond seems to be making his way out of jokedom and becoming "cool". Weird.)

I am in no way, shape, or form dissing Johnny's greatness. What I'm saying is that most people who claim to be fans of Cash only glommed onto him because rockabilly bands doing crappy versions of his songs. (There certainly were exceptions, i.e. Blue Moon Boys) I toured alot during that time and heard more than my fair share of crappy bands trying to play Cash songs, let me tell you.

I'm glad you're a big fan of Johnny Cash, and claim to have no interest in "dissing" his greatness. I just want to point out that Mr. Cash has many, many, many, many, non-wavering LIFELONG FANS. I'm truly sorry none of them were able to be present during your formative years, or at any of your karaoke or live performance band events.

Oh yes, no one gives a rat's a**, but I'm 47.

It's not a claim, it's a fact that I will never and have never dissed Cash. I've been listening to Cash for 35 years. I am a fan. My point is that there was a period of time where he wasn't "cool". I'm sorry but that's just fact.

Don't be sorry about no Cash fans at Karaoke or band gigs, dude. It just made him that much cooler to me.

Oh and I'm 40, so no young pup either.

rezin wrote:

Steel String Bender wrote:

GRAVE ROBBER wrote: Yes I do and I'll tell you why:

When I was about 5 I discovered Cash. From that time until I was about 30, nobody even mentioned him to me. Ever. I've owned a dj/karaoke company for 15 years and the only people that ever sang Cash songs were 50+ years old at legion halls. That is until the rockabilly thing got it's moment. Suddenly, punk rockers were singing karaoke at O's. I sang a Cash song once around 1994 at karaoke and got laughed at.

No one ever requested Cash songs at a wedding reception until he died.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if I had to guess I'd say you don't remember a time when Cash wasn't cool. After his Rick Rubin produced "comeback" album, he was suddenly popular. I have Cash albums from the year they were released handed down from my parents. Trust me, there was a long drawn out period of time where Johnny Cash was considered to be a joke. I know because I was the butt of many a joke for liking him. (Suddenly Neil Diamond seems to be making his way out of jokedom and becoming "cool". Weird.)

I am in no way, shape, or form dissing Johnny's greatness. What I'm saying is that most people who claim to be fans of Cash only glommed onto him because rockabilly bands doing crappy versions of his songs. (There certainly were exceptions, i.e. Blue Moon Boys) I toured alot during that time and heard more than my fair share of crappy bands trying to play Cash songs, let me tell you.

I'm glad you're a big fan of Johnny Cash, and claim to have no interest in "dissing" his greatness. I just want to point out that Mr. Cash has many, many, many, many, non-wavering LIFELONG FANS. I'm truly sorry none of them were able to be present during your formative years, or at any of your karaoke or live performance band events.

Oh yes, no one gives a rat's a**, but I'm 47.

this dude has quite the mouth on him.

HAHAHA!!!

iammarky wrote:i wish ace frehley would beat the crap out of bob dylan.

Well, Bob certainly ain't back in the new york groove, is he?



















(Just funnin', before some angry old man gets his panties in a bunch and starts a huge list of things that are not cronologically correct, sheesh)

I'll help put this together if there really is interest.

come on we dont need to bring jesus into this. that's pretty harsh.