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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:57 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
Too Much Free Time

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no, scrubbing toilets and cleaning up after slobs is a job. music is a lifestyle.

what's sad is that you have no problem being taken advantage of. if you were legitimately altruistic in this, you'd never play out at a club, ever. what would be the point? really? what is the point of playing out, then? you can't say that it's so people can see you play. people can see you play in your basement, or in your practice place, or in a hall that you rent and provide sound for. you can't say it's because you just love to play, because you can do that at home, alone.

if you're playing at a venue that someone else owns, you're making money for them, and if you play for free, you're being taken. you can do everything on your own that you can do playing at a bar. you can promote the show. you can invite your friends. you can book other bands. you can do the whole thing, and if you really, altruistically love it, you won't mind the work or cost involved because you just want to play. so why, then, would you ever play out?

i challenge you to present a reason for playing out that i can't counter with a way you could do it on your own.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:21 pm 
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I Beat Up Kittens
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Garr wrote:
music is a lifestyle.


Yeah, I've been in a Hot Topic, too.

Quote:
i challenge you to present a reason for playing out that i can't counter with a way you could do it on your own.



I don't care about getting paid, and since I don't care about that I don't care if there's a bar making money off of me.

Bands and musicians aren't entitled to sh*t, and if you think you are right out of the gate, your ego needs an adjustment.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:24 pm 
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Arbitrator
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Quote:
Bands and musicians aren't entitled to sh*t, and if you think you are right out of the gate, your ego needs an adjustment.


WHAT!!?? You are forking crazy.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:28 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
Too Much Free Time

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Massage...Bored wrote:
I don't care about getting paid, and since I don't care about that I don't care if there's a bar making money off of me.

Bands and musicians aren't entitled to sh*t, and if you think you are right out of the gate, your ego needs an adjustment.


Why are they not entitled?

This makes no sense, it YOU don't think your art is worth something, why would anyone else?

Unless your just picking the counter argument against Garr just to argue.

I gotta side with Garr on this one. Except playing for free.

Free gigs are great for the up and coming, with no experience under their belt


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:34 pm 
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I Beat Up Kittens
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sevesd93 wrote:
Quote:
Bands and musicians aren't entitled to sh*t, and if you think you are right out of the gate, your ego needs an adjustment.


WHAT!!?? You are f*#king crazy.


Am I? We aren't entitled to play at Y place for X amount of money. We're not, its not our decision, its the decision of the people that listen to you and support you. If you have the appropriate following, you have the appropriate gig. If you have a few hundred people willing to pay money to see you play, you have a bigger venue, and you might make some decent money. If you have six people that like your band and come to see you play, you are entitled to a living room or basement, not C-Street on a Saturday night. So I'm sick of bands that are just getting started thinking they own the f*cking world with their six fans. You aren't entitled to sh*t, you have to earn it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:36 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
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Massage...Bored wrote:
If you have six people that like your band and come to see you play, you are entitled to a living room or basement, not C-Street on a Saturday night. So I'm sick of bands that are just getting started thinking they own the f*cking world with their six fans. You aren't entitled to sh*t, you have to earn it.



Ahh sweet clarification.

THIS makes sense.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:40 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
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Zach, you have this uncanny ability to completely railroad the discussion into something else.

You still haven't answered my question. Why play out at bars/clubs then?

@ your other B.S.

Hot Topic? Really? Seriously? I work 40 hours a week, third shift so I can take care of my son for another 40 hours a week while I take part time college classes with the miniscule other time I have. Add to that about 8 hours of practice with the band and 8 hours alone per week and I barely have time to sleep. My statement about lifestyle has nothing to do with spoon fed crap culture, and if you think that about me, well sir, you're pretty damned superficial and ignorant of the person to whom you're talking. I've seen your band at least three times. Ever seen one of mine? You've had 10 years to do it. I sacrifice almost every ounce of my freetime to my love for singing and playing the guitar. You can take your hot topic comment and chew on it.

I have eaten 10 years of empty plates in this music scene and I know others who have done it for twice or thrice that. Humans are entitled to respectful treatment. I don't want to, nor do I expect to get rich off of music. I'll continue to do it in my spare room jacked into my headphones until my fingers freeze up with arthritis so don't question my integrity. There is absolutely nothing wrong or egotistical about expecting fair compensation for services provided.

So again, I ask, why do you play out at bars/clubs Zach?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:40 pm 
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I Beat Up Kittens
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Never expect to get paid, and if a little cash comes your way its oh so much sweeter than haggling over that five bucks you were promised for beer. Its also the secret to keeping a band together and productive/content, no money problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
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Massage...Bored wrote:
If you have a few hundred people willing to pay money to see you play, you have a bigger venue, and you might make some decent money. If you have six people that like your band and come to see you play, you are entitled to a living room or basement, not C-Street on a Saturday night. So I'm sick of bands that are just getting started thinking they own the f*cking world with their six fans. You aren't entitled to sh*t, you have to earn it.

How can you, on one hand, state that you don't care about money and then use it in your subsequent argument? Are you kidding me?

If you can pull those kind of people, really, you should be capable of producing and promoting your own shows. Why would you even use the bar?

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. . .and those who don't.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
Too Much Free Time

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Oliver's Army wrote:
I gotta side with Garr on this one. Except playing for free.

Free gigs are great for the up and coming, with no experience under their belt

see above:
me wrote:
I can only think of three reasons to play for no compensation (in no particular order):. . .

. . .3. You're promoting. If you want on a great bill to gain exposure and reach a wider audience, this is a great idea. I view this as compensation, though, so I guess it might not count.
I view this as the same thing you said about belts.

You're being compensated in publicity, experience, exposure, and convenience even though you're not gaining any monetary exchange. I doubt that any band I am ever in would be invited to play with a powerhouse like Definitely Gary, but if we were, I'd do it for free because of the obvious other benefits. I'd maybe even do it two or three times, but beyond that, if you're continuing to be invited into such a situation, there is a respect line that has been crossed. If you're good enough to share the stage that regularly, you're good enough to get paid.

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Those who understand binary. . .

. . .and those who don't.

http://www.garrmusic.com


Last edited by Garr on Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:51 pm 
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I Beat Up Kittens
I Beat Up Kittens

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Garr wrote:
Zach, you have this uncanny ability to completely railroad the discussion into something else.


Your welcome.

Quote:
Hot Topic? Really? Seriously? My statement about lifestyle has nothing to do with spoon fed crap culture. You can take your hot topic comment and chew on it.


It sounds like spoon fed crap culture, that's why I made that comment. That and I enjoy ribbin' ya.

Quote:
So again, I ask, why do you play out at bars/clubs Zach?


It's fun.





P.S. I honestly cannot remember if I've seen you play anywhere, Garr. Perhaps an acoustic performance, I think maybe the Deer Park thang. But all the shows I've been to run together.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:52 pm 
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Addict
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Garr wrote:

what's sad is that you have no problem being taken advantage of. if you were legitimately altruistic in this, you'd never play out at a club, ever. what would be the point? really? what is the point of playing out, then? you can't say that it's so people can see you play. people can see you play in your basement, or in your practice place, or in a hall that you rent and provide sound for. you can't say it's because you just love to play, because you can do that at home, alone.

i challenge you to present a reason for playing out that i can't counter with a way you could do it on your own.


People want to play so that people that they do not know might hear them. If I start going up to random people and asking them to show up at my basement, they're going to think I'm a little strange maybe...and let's say my hypothetical basement is in the suburbs where someone will call the cops the moment loud music starts blaring past 8pm?

When my band plays out we hope to play for someone that hasn't seen us before. We hope they buy a cd, or a few people buy a cd so we can cover some expenses. Granted, none of us have families and we all have some cash to burn, so we're not incredibly worried about making lots of money off of a venue, but when we get it, we take it.

Some people gain satisfaction simply by playing in front of people. Some people absolutely love performing. I have a few friends that would give both of their nuts to play a crappy tuesday night show with a band at a MOMS show. Now I wouldn't, but I've played a lot of shows. But some people crave performing more than others. It's fun. People like to have fun. I'm not worried about whether someone is making cash while I'm doing what I like to do. Good for them, and good for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:57 pm 
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I Beat Up Kittens
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I'm in no way sayig money is a bad thing in the whole scheme of things. Call it an added bonus of an already satisfactory evening. But I have never once expected to get paid from a gig unless it was stated up front, "You guys will be playing X amount of minutes and we'll pay you Y amount of dollars." Okay, great, thanks for having us.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:57 pm 
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Too Much Free Time
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Quote:
I view this as the same thing you said about belts.


HUH?

Did I miss a memo about belts?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:57 pm 
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lib-mod cannibal Norwegian deth metal
lib-mod cannibal Norwegian deth metal

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f*ck this shite...

our local scene rules...

this is dumb...

you know what?

Image

this went from some d*ck crying about the local scene here, when the turd was tryin to throw shows in bluffton, to you guys discussing nickles and dimes...

now correct me if i am wrong, but this thread has been devito'd...

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