Interesting Quote

[Garr]

“It is not he who reviles or strikes you who insults you, but your opinion that these things are insulting.â€

[zenmandan]

The quote I had in my signature line for quite a while was "All fear and infinite sufferings arise in the mind" (Buddha). Epictetus is saying essentially the same thing. It's one of the ideas that drew me to Zen practice...we create our own suffering by our reaction to things. If I choose not to react to the douche bag that pulled out in front of me, than I don't get angry.

One of my Zen teachers, Brad Warner, said it pretty well: "You can't control your circumstances. Control is an illusion. But how you respond to them is totally up to you. And once you learn to respond better, an interesting thing happens. The world starts to behave exactly as you want it to. Or is it that you no longer expect it to behave in any other way than it does?"

[deek]

Yup, this is pretty much seen in a lot of different quotes, and comes up over many different time periods. I have one on my desk at work, by Charles Swindell, "...life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it."

I explored Zen several years back and that too was one of the things that drew me to it...that and beginner's mind.

[Garr]

I'm not widely read, so I have not encountered this in the limited philosophy that I've read, but I've thought this way for a long time. The problem I have is my shenpa. I cannot think fast enough to counter my emotions and often react in ways contrary to this way of thought.

I tend to be overly tuned to my raw emotions and I take little if any control over them. This concept solidified (and reworded by Zen and deek) may help me combat that. Or I may continue to be pissed off at anyone and everyone who criticizes me. Understanding to let go of control makes sense, but I find it's difficult because there are some things about which I am very obsessive/compulsive.

It makes me cry. Or rather, I allow myself to cry in reaction to it.

The fear I have of this is a path toward a lack of response or reaction all together. I think that this concept could be taken to the extreme and a person might lose their passion in life.

[Silencio]

The Western idea that Zen consists of passive detachment and a resulting freedom from both pain and passion is not only an impossible ideal, it's wrong.

David Brazier's excellent book The Feeling Buddha does a fine job of explaining how Lisa and I have came to understand Zen in our practice, long before Brazier came along... we could never figure out what the rest of these people were on about!

[Sankofa]

It's all about the Tao of Pooh.

[zenmandan]

Garr,
It's not about not feeling, being angry, being sad, etc. It's about how we react to those things. By all means, get angry, but to stay attached to that anger is when trouble begins. It's the attachment to things and ideas that cause the suffering.

Silencio,
I have not read the Brazier book yet, but will go get it soon. I am a follower of Gudo Nishijima, the former head of the Soto sect, and several of his students. He is a strong follower of Master Dogen's ideas, and has written many books on Dogen and Zen.
I wouldn't say I am a follower of the "Western" Zen philosophy, although I understand what you mean. The Americanized version and interpretation of Zen can be far from what Japanese Zen is. As an American, you should read Brad Warner's books "Hardcore Zen, Punk Rock, Monster Movies and the Truth About Reality" and "Sit Down and Shut Up, Punk Rock Commentaries on Buddha, God, Truth, Sex, Death & Dogen's Treasury of the Right Dharma Eye". They're both good reads, and easy to relate to, as he was/is a bass player in a punk band from Cleveland and is now an ordained Buddhist Priest.

[deek]

The fear I have of this is a path toward a lack of response or reaction all together. I think that this concept could be taken to the extreme and a person might lose their passion in life.

I'd almost say the opposite...you end up being a lot more passionate in life and everything you do. When you don't hold onto the obstacles people place in front of you, everything becomes a lot easier...your responses and reactions, all more natural...

I don't know, once you stop trying to control everything in your life and remove the need to attach yourself to so much "clutter", you end up focusing on what is really important, and then everything in life just kinda falls into the right place...

[zenmandan]

The fear I have of this is a path toward a lack of response or reaction all together. I think that this concept could be taken to the extreme and a person might lose their passion in life.

I'd almost say the opposite...you end up being a lot more passionate in life and everything you do. When you don't hold onto the obstacles people place in front of you, everything becomes a lot easier...your responses and reactions, all more natural...

I don't know, once you stop trying to control everything in your life and remove the need to attach yourself to so much "clutter", you end up focusing on what is really important, and then everything in life just kinda falls into the right place...

Very nicely put Deek. I couldn't agree more. It's only when you give up notions of what will or won't make you happy that you can really experience each moment as it is.

[subgenius88]

I tend to be overly tuned to my raw emotions and I take little if any control over them.

I think it's a mistake to try to control your emotions as such, impossible really. I don't think you can be overly tuned to your emotions either. Your problem, if you have one, probably stems from this feeling that you have to control your emotions - to stifle them. Feel the emotion and recognize where it comes from, why you react emotionally in the way you do, then let it go. You may need to control yourself - your action and reaction, but that is different. There is a reason you have emotional responses, and if you try to stifle the feeling of the responses you're avoiding looking at the truth about yourself. And really you'd be fooling your self if you think you are succeeding in doing so, because that is the nature of emotion - basically an uncontrolled response. If you let your emotion exist with out fighting or judging it, then you can observe it. Then you can see truth about yourself and your emotional response can change. But once you try to control it, then you are fighting against it - it being actually a part of yourself. Then you have inner turmoil, self-conflict, and your emotional pain will only increase in that state.

[G Fresh]

Ummm...like...live long and prosper?

[deek]

Then you have inner turmoil, self-conflict, and your emotional pain will only increase in that state.

I've known the dude (Garr) for almost two decades, there's plenty of self-conflict and inner turmoil to go around...but, without it, he wouldn't be Garr...so why try to change that now?

[=^-..-^=]

I tend to be overly tuned to my raw emotions and I take little if any control over them.

I think it's a mistake to try to control your emotions as such, impossible really. I don't think you can be overly tuned to your emotions either. Your problem, if you have one, probably stems from this feeling that you have to control your emotions - to stifle them. Feel the emotion and recognize where it comes from, why you react emotionally in the way you do, then let it go. You may need to control yourself - your action and reaction, but that is different. There is a reason you have emotional responses, and if you try to stifle the feeling of the responses you're avoiding looking at the truth about yourself. And really you'd be fooling your self if you think you are succeeding in doing so, because that is the nature of emotion - basically an uncontrolled response. If you let your emotion exist with out fighting or judging it, then you can observe it. Then you can see truth about yourself and your emotional response can change. But once you try to control it, then you are fighting against it - it being actually a part of yourself. Then you have inner turmoil, self-conflict, and your emotional pain will only increase in that state.

I mostly agree. Emotions come from the primitive parts of the hindbrain, like the hypothalamus. What sets us apart from the animals who are ruled by stimulus/response and pure emotion are the front parts of the brain that give us reason, logic, planning, and evaluation through experience through which to filter those emotions into constructive / creative and non self-destructive responses. That way, we can still be passionate and driven, but still accomplish the ends of our passions without flying off the handle.

Emotions alone cannot be trusted, because they are so often based on levels of neurotransmitters in our brains, or the lack thereof.

[zenmandan]

I think a couple of you may be misinterpreting the ideas here...maybe not..I apologize ahead of time if you aren't. The original post was a quote about how *our* opinions are what determine if something is insulting or offensive or whatever.

It's not about "controlling emotions" or stifling them or anything else. It's about how *you* react to those feelings. Let's take anger for an example... “Youâ€

[=^-..-^=]

Agreed. It's not the situation, but how you react to the situation that makes the difference. Holding on to hatred is like trying to kill a person by swallowing the poison yourself.

Sorry if the topic strayed there.

In church today, we talked about parenting from a perspective of anger versus a perspective of discipline. Discipline sets limits on behaviors in a child for their own growth and enrichment as later adults, where reacting out of anger is acting for an interuption of our contentment and convenience.

There's probably an application in there somewhere for our criminal justice system, but I'm not sure. Justice is an unattainable ideal; but we need to strive for it anyway. Justice must be tempered by a sense of community.