Barry Bonds

The_Dude · Post by **The_Dude** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:02 am

conley wrote:"The_Dude Posted:
Clemens didn't disappear! He was the most dominant pitcher in the majors last year. He's 42.

He'll be playing again in about 3-4 weeks. He's just making sure he's got enough gas to make it thru the playoffs."

That's my point. He was the most dominant pitcher in the game last year & where is he? I still think he's possibly staying "under the radar" with all of this steroid stuff. The guy is HUGE. Actually, the real point is that players, other than Barry Bonds, may have used steroids at some point in time.

Well, I personally don't think Clemens has ever used roids. I just believe he's a freak of nature AND arguably the best pitcher to ever play the game. It's a shame he had to play mostly for teams I despise.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:19 am

Clemens has always been huge. They started the testing last year. He wore down too much going into October last year, which is why he's getting a later start this year. Pitchers have used roids, but not Clemens. He's just a freak of nature, like Nolan Ryan, who would probably still be pitching if not for the injury he suffered.

conley · Post by **conley** » Thu May 25, 2006 2:08 pm

Don't get me wrong, I like Roger Clemens. I just don't understand why we are so quick to accuse Bonds & so few others. Clemens has probably put on 40lbs since his rookie year....sorry, he's a lot "thicker"than he was during his earlier years - just like Bonds. His head looks bigger, just like Giambi's & Bonds.

I'm just creating an argument here. Why can we make accusations, as a society, against one man & not the other? To me, the production & physical comparisons between Bonds & Clemens really do parallel one another.

Just a thought

The_Dude · Post by **The_Dude** » Thu May 25, 2006 2:19 pm

conley wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like Roger Clemens. I just don't understand why we are so quick to accuse Bonds & so few others. Clemens has probably put on 40lbs since his rookie year....sorry, he's a lot "thicker"than he was during his earlier years - just like Bonds. His head looks bigger, just like Giambi's & Bonds.

I'm just creating an argument here. Why can we make accusations, as a society, against one man & not the other? To me, the production & physical comparisons between Bonds & Clemens really do parallel one another.

Just a thought

1.) Bonds is an butthead, not only to reporters, but to fans as well. He's painting the bullseye on his own back. That's the biggest reason.

2.) No one else is close to breaking one of the most treasured records in sports.

3.) Other big-named stars have been accused, but they're not in the league anymore. That's not to say there aren't players in the league currently that did take them at one time, but again, refer to #2. If they approach a major record, of course they're going to be questioned.

rezin · Post by **rezin** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:41 pm

i dont care for bonds so much...

but nothing has been proven...

get off...

The_Dude · Post by **The_Dude** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:46 pm

With that logic, OJ Simpson never did a thing.

Grand Jury Testimony was leaked. HIS grand jury testimony.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 0UDU65.DTL

deek · Post by **deek** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:02 pm

You throw Giambi in the mix...and he admitted to using steroids. I think the biggest thing is, that Bonds seemingly has used steriods in the past and he continues to deny it, plus he is in the limelight, both from his own doing and from the records he approaches...

Conseco admitted to it in his book. Palmero tested positive. Giambi admitted to it under oath. I am sure McGwire and Sosa both used them...there is a long list of others as well...fact of the matter is, Bonds is at the top of that ladder, most in the public eye, so that is who we focus on.

I think they are all just a bunch of cheaters...

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Denied using steroids, according to the article. No positive tests. Anderson denied giving him steroids.

Why is it that the only form of cheating that's really frowned on by baseball is steroids?

Scuffed or otherwise altered baseballs - we laugh about it and call the guys who threw them the greatest pitchers ever.

longer than regulation fielders gloves, corked bats, pine tar too high on the handle...

Even if he did roids, he's still the greatest hitter ever - including Ted Williams. You've still got to hit a 100MPH pitch, and you've got to generate enough bat speed to hit with the kind of power he has. Roids don't help you see the pitch better and they don't have anything to do with bat speed. They will help with raw power - but not that much - but Barry's home runs were pure bat speed type homeruns, not power hitter home runs. At best, you could attribute 20 home runs over that 3 year period to roids. The rest were homers with or without the 5% power gain from using roids.

deek · Post by **deek** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:59 pm

I think you greatly underestimate what your alleged 5% power gain amounts to in baseball...

Hey, I frown upon doctoring a ball, corking the bat, illegal gear as well...that's cheating...and I don't like it one bit. Same thing with players spraying PAM on their football jersery's or stick-em on their gloves...its all cheating and none of it should be allowed. And really, I think all of the above mentioned cheats are banned or illegal from their respective sports.

That doesn't prevent people from using them though...

My point is, there is a bit of a difference doctoring a baseball versus injecting yourself with horse hormones or human growth hormones...end result, both are getting an edge, but I think the chemical cheating is a lot worse.

But also realize, if steriods were legal or there was a special league where players were allowed to use them, I would not have a problem with it...while I understand you will never admit that Bonds took any steriod until he admits it himself (cream and clear, anyone?), there is enough visual evidence that it doesn't take a leap of faith to realize he did...and until he admits it, he's a punk.

Now, when he does admit it, I'll still say he is a cheater, but I won't think he's a liar and a punk...and he can have all the records he wants for all I care, just admit what you did...

The_Dude · Post by **The_Dude** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:13 pm

bassjones wrote:Denied using steroids, according to the article. No positive tests. Anderson denied giving him steroids.

Did you read the very first sentence of the article? He didn't deny using...he denied knowing.

And no positive tests doesn't mean a thing. You think everyone that takes a urine tests uses their own urine? Or that none of them use a masking agent? Especially someone who's rich and can find ways around just about anything as long as they have the $$$ to back it up. Anderson denied giving him roids...yeah, his credibility is already shot so that's thrown out the window. They're best friends...are you gonna rat your best friend out? Grand jury or not, the answer is no.

And to say that steroid "only contributed to 20 or so" of his HR's is just outright blasphemous. You can't say that. No one can say that.

When you're on roids, it's not just about the physical aspect of it all. It's psychological, too. So to say that roids don't help you make contact or hit a certain pitch, that's wrong too. If your confidence isn't there, the numbers aren't either.

After listening to 40 hours of ESPN Radio per week on top of all the baseball I watch, the dude HAS to be guilty. At first I didn't care but now I've heard so much about the guy that I just wish he would either admit to it or MLB would just say screw it and go on with their day. Like BJ said, pitchers doctored balls. There are H.O.F. pitchers out there that have admitted to it. There are no asterisks next to their name.

Do I think he's guilty? Hell yes. Should everybody be as hard on him as they are right now? I don't know but I personally think he deserves it based on the way he's treated people ever since he came up with the Pirates. Do I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion? Yep.

In the end, it's baseball. If he IS doing roids, he'll pay for it OFF the field.

sharkmansix · Post by **sharkmansix** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:20 pm

You think everyone that takes a urine tests uses their own urine?

Someone's talking from expierence!

The_Dude · Post by **The_Dude** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:31 pm

ahahha...shut up, d*ck!

conley · Post by **conley** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:58 pm

Damn, cheating bastards.

CustomMadeSmitty · Post by **CustomMadeSmitty** » Fri May 26, 2006 12:50 pm

Barry Bonds = SUM b*tch
Gaining A Hundred Pounds In 10 Years!!

rezin · Post by **rezin** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:37 pm